Hello CG-lites,
I wrote some stuff and here it is.It's a little boy asking the world about his future.
---Kash
Would I...
Would I be a doctor, a lawyer, an astronaut?
a teacher, a preacher or prince of thought?
Would I wear Daddy's important blue tie,
have hairy feet or grow very high?
Would my tongue grow long enough to lick my elbow,
my muscles grow big enough so I am Rambo?
Would I still have animal biscuits for tea,
Mommy buys one box, why can't I have three?
Would Jenny's granny still be alive
bake fantastic meatloaves or large apple pies?
Would I grow up to know 86 timestables,
sing noisy songs or recite Aesop's fables?
Would I still put a thumbtack on Mr Green's chair,
and make fun of such people who do not have hair?
Would I still be the king of my castle,
and win Robin Thomas in tiring arm wrestles?
Would I still remember to fold paper planes,
shoot red rubber bands,or play shadow games?
Would I still climb Uncle Ben's big tree
watch sunset up there,just Jenny and me?
Would I grow up to be a very big boy,
but not forget the smell of wet grass or
squelch of warm soil?
And when I grow up ,
Ill what Ill be,
who am I then,
would I be me?
lovelove,
Kash
Thursday, February 28, 2008
Monday, February 25, 2008
Max Lucado - When God Whispers Your Name
i love this. i can't believe it's so simple and so good... it's single-handedly changing my week. see if you guys like it.
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Each day. . .
It's quiet. It's early. My coffee is hot. The sky is still black. The world is still asleep. The day is coming.
In a few moments the day will arrive. It will roar down the track with the rising of the sun. The stillness of the dawn will be exchanged for the noise of the day. The calm of solitude will be replaced by the pounding pace of the human race. The refuge of the early morning will be invaded by decisions to be made and deadlines to be met.
For the next twelve hours I will be exposed to the day's demands. It is now that I must make a choice.
Because of Calvary, I'm free to choose. And so I choose.
I choose love. . .
No occasion justifies hatred; no injustice warrants bitterness. I choose love. Today I will love God and what God loves.
I choose joy. . .
I will invite my God to be the God of circumstance. I will refuse the temptation to be cynical. . . the tool of the lazy thinker. I will refuse to see people as anything less than human beings, created by God. I will refuse to see any problem as anything less than an opportunity to see God.
I choose peace. . .
I will live forgiven. I will forgive so that I may live.
I choose patience. . .
I will overlook the inconveniences of the world. Instead of cursing the one who takes my place, I'll invite him to do so. Rather than complain that the wait is too long, I will thank God for a moment to pray. Instead of clinching my fist at new assignments, I will face them with joy and courage.
I choose kindness. . .
I will be kind to the poor, for they are alone. Kind to the rich, for they are afraid. And kind to the unkind, for such is how God has treated me.
I choose goodness. . .
I will go without a dollar before I take a dishonest one. I will be overlooked before I will boast. I will confess before I will accuse. I choose goodness.
I choose faithfulness. . .
Today I will keep my promises. My debtors will not regret their trust. My associates will not question my word. My wife will not question my love. And my children will never fear that their father will not come home.
I choose gentleness. . .
Nothing is won by force. I choose to be gentle. If I raise my voice may it be only in praise. If I clench my fist, may it be only in prayer. If I make a demand, may it be only of myself.
I choose self-control. . .
I am a spiritual being. . . After this body is dead, my spirit will soar. I refuse to let what will rot, rule the eternal. I choose self-control. I will be drunk only by joy. I will be impassioned only by my faith. I will be influenced only by God. I will be taught only by Christ. I choose self-control.
Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. To these I commit my day. If I succeed, I will give thanks. In fail, I will seek his grace. And then, when this day is done, I will place my head on my pillow and rest.
Sunday, February 24, 2008
Tuesday, February 19, 2008
Globalisation and Christianity
I'm here to share an article from one of my seminar readings which I found rather interesting:
The Christian nations of North America and Western Europe are well developed. Many have identified the Protestant work ethic and frugal lifestyles as key factors in capitalism's development. Nevertheless, globalisation and capitalist principles clash with some Christian ideals. For example:
The Christian nations of North America and Western Europe are well developed. Many have identified the Protestant work ethic and frugal lifestyles as key factors in capitalism's development. Nevertheless, globalisation and capitalist principles clash with some Christian ideals. For example:
- The "love thy neighbour as yourself" principle dovetails better with collectivist ideals that stress community orientations (communism) than with the individualistic orientations of Western societies.
- "Thou shalt not covet they neighbour's goods" (the Tenth Commandment) is at odds with the materialistic, acquisitive nature of capitalist societies. In economic theory, Duesenberry's permanent income hypothesis (1949) posits that emulation of social superiors is a motivational force driving consumption in advanced societies. In developing countries, Nurkse's Demonstration Effect (1952) and Hill and Still's Emulation Cycle (1980) all attest to the power of "coveting thy neighbour's goods" in stimulating consumption in emerging markets. In popular parlance, the rat race also signals the use of material possessions in determining individuals' postions in modern economic societies.
- The profit maximization principle can be equated with greed.
- Sunday (the Christian Sabbath - Lord's day) is not a day of rest for most retailers - Third Commandment - "Keep holy the Sabbath").
- The kingdom of God is not a democracy.
Question: Is Christianity incompatible with democratic and capitalistic principles? If so, why have democracies and market forces societies flourished in Western Europe and North America?
Aspiring economists out there might like to think about this. In the meantime I will dutifully attend my seminar and hopefully get some answers :)
Monday, February 18, 2008
Reflections on Prayer
Dear CG, just to share a portion of what I journal-ed on 12th Feb. Its on prayer.
Prayer
I was just thinking about prayer yesterday after reading a book on it. There is this rather well known story (Dr. Robert Munger's My Heart Christ's Home) that illustrates the picture of us spending time with God and its simple concept.
So it goes that this guy has yielded his life to Christ, and realized that he really desired fellowship with God. The illustration here is that God is always in this beautiful room with a fireplace and nice sofas for the both of them to sit and fellowship. God is always in that room, waiting every morning for this man to come into the room and spend time with Him. God truly desired to talk to and listen to this man and for the first few months, they had great fellowship. But slowly, life’s responsibilities and workload began to overwhelm him. He skipped a day spending time with God in that special room, then two days, then a week, which turned to months and years. One day, the man walked past the room and peeked into it. He saw God sitting there near the fireplace, waiting for him, just like every morning. The man felt guilty, since he invited God in, but was not spending time with Him.
“The trouble with you is this. You have been thinking of the quiet time as a factor in your own spiritual progress but have forgotten that this hour means something to Me also. Remember, I love you.”
Prayer is about relationship, abiding in Christ, and sweet fellowship with God.
P- Process. Prayer is not a one off thing you do. From the mental and physical preparation the day or night before, to the focus required during actually praying, to the end of it where you follow up and end with a testimony no matter what the answer. It also includes prayer lists.
R- Regularity. More than a discipline, we talk to God daily because He is in our hearts, in our ‘special’ room, waiting for us, desiring to hear and talk to us. Since He was invited, let us treat Him with our best hospitality we can give.
A- Atonement. Let us remember that Jesus died for us so that we can talk to God. Only through Jesus Christ can we go to the Father. That is why we pray in Jesus’ name.
Y- Yielding. Prayer is an act of dependence, and often desperation, but supremely it is an act of faith. Prayer is a major evidence of true faith. We pray because we believe in God. We pray simply of the fact that the God we trust in is All powerful and All knowing. If we do not believe that, why pray? We pray because unless the Lord builds the house, the laborers work in vain.
Prayer
I was just thinking about prayer yesterday after reading a book on it. There is this rather well known story (Dr. Robert Munger's My Heart Christ's Home) that illustrates the picture of us spending time with God and its simple concept.
So it goes that this guy has yielded his life to Christ, and realized that he really desired fellowship with God. The illustration here is that God is always in this beautiful room with a fireplace and nice sofas for the both of them to sit and fellowship. God is always in that room, waiting every morning for this man to come into the room and spend time with Him. God truly desired to talk to and listen to this man and for the first few months, they had great fellowship. But slowly, life’s responsibilities and workload began to overwhelm him. He skipped a day spending time with God in that special room, then two days, then a week, which turned to months and years. One day, the man walked past the room and peeked into it. He saw God sitting there near the fireplace, waiting for him, just like every morning. The man felt guilty, since he invited God in, but was not spending time with Him.
“The trouble with you is this. You have been thinking of the quiet time as a factor in your own spiritual progress but have forgotten that this hour means something to Me also. Remember, I love you.”
Prayer is about relationship, abiding in Christ, and sweet fellowship with God.
P- Process. Prayer is not a one off thing you do. From the mental and physical preparation the day or night before, to the focus required during actually praying, to the end of it where you follow up and end with a testimony no matter what the answer. It also includes prayer lists.
R- Regularity. More than a discipline, we talk to God daily because He is in our hearts, in our ‘special’ room, waiting for us, desiring to hear and talk to us. Since He was invited, let us treat Him with our best hospitality we can give.
A- Atonement. Let us remember that Jesus died for us so that we can talk to God. Only through Jesus Christ can we go to the Father. That is why we pray in Jesus’ name.
Y- Yielding. Prayer is an act of dependence, and often desperation, but supremely it is an act of faith. Prayer is a major evidence of true faith. We pray because we believe in God. We pray simply of the fact that the God we trust in is All powerful and All knowing. If we do not believe that, why pray? We pray because unless the Lord builds the house, the laborers work in vain.
Prayer is not so much about our own spiritual growth. It is also not so much about our own requests. Rather, let us pray because of God. Let us pray because we know that when we do, we are actually entering the special room and making time to have sweet fellowship with Him. Despite of all our commitments, schedules, meetings and work, we must learn to make time to come into the special room with God. He is always there waiting for us. Let us not disappoint Him. Pray.
‘Prayer is a process of regularity, remembering the grace we receive through the atonement of sin, and yielding to the ultimate nature of the Almighty.’
- Jonathan Low, 2008
‘Prayer is a process of regularity, remembering the grace we receive through the atonement of sin, and yielding to the ultimate nature of the Almighty.’
- Jonathan Low, 2008
Saturday, February 16, 2008
Chris Tomlin - Amazing Grace (My Chains are Gone)
Amazing grace
How sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me
I once was lost, but now I'm found
Was blind, but now I see
'Twas grace that taught my heart to fear
And grace my fears relieved
How precious did that grace appear
The hour I first believed
My chains are gone
I've been set free
My God, my Savior has ransomed me
And like a flood His mercy reigns
Unending love, Amazing grace
The Lord has promised good to me
His word my hope secures
He will my shield and portion be
As long as life endures
The earth shall soon dissolve like snow
The sun forbear to shine
But God, Who called me here below
Will be forever mine
Will be forever mine
You are forever mine
This song has been in my mind for a few days. It reminds me of the salvation I have received so freely, so undeserved. There is indeed no greater love than this that He would hang on the cross for me.
I was reading my past journal entries. And last year on 6 April 2007, Good Friday, I was reading a devotional or sth and I wrote this in my journal...
"The heart of salvation is the Cross of Christ. The reason salvation is so easy to obtain is that it cost God so much. The cross was the place where God and sinful man merged with a tremendous collision and where the way to life was opened. But all the cost and pain of the collision was absorbed by the heart of God."
As I listen to this song, I remembered my friend singing it when she heard me humming it in school. But the thing is that she didn't even know what the song meant. "I once was lost, but now I'm found. Was blind, but now I see" My heart just sunk. I prayed that indeed she'll be found, that she'll see. I felt this 'pain' in my heart as I thought about people around me who don't know God. And all the more I thought how much more it breaks God's heart than mine to see His people spending eternity without Christ! "For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord." - Ezekiel 18:32.
God's heart is for the lost. I believe the main reason why the return of Christ is delayed is so that more will be saved. We have great worship, great fellowship here on earth. And we will continue to have that till eternity in heaven. But evangelism is the only thing we can't do in heaven.
Jesus always prayed for the people He came to save, to heal. Even till the end, he said "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing". If we love God, we'll pray for the people He loves, the people on His heart. Let's keep praying for the souls of our family, relatives and friends. When we pray, heaven is moved, the Holy Spirit works a deep work in hardened hearts beyond what we expect. Let us be prepared to witness the amazing power of prayer :)
Sunday, February 3, 2008
phwww.
i'd like to talk about the issue we have with prayer, again. but it's not because it's that important, it's not because it's that fundamental, it's not because it's one of the few issues we seriously ever talk about, it's not because of what i feel, it's not because everybody has a view to share and wants to be heard, it's not because i want to convince anybody with my convictions, it's not because i'm doing what i think is right, it's not because i want to raise this issue so people read the blog, it's not because i want to keep bringing this issue to the attention of you guys, it's not because some people want to take it easy and i don't, it's not because i'm long winded and i think you guys are missing the point, it's not because everybody likes to be neutral to each other for the sake of peace, even if they have genuinely strong feelings about the subject, it's not because i want to have this cg discuss this properly like we never have the chance to during cg time and we have this opportunity to which is being neglected, it's not because i like to keep on a thread that nobody wants to continue, it's not because i want to redefine anybody else's faith, it's not because i want to argue about this with my human reasoning and perspectives, it's not because i think i'm very clever or wise or spiritually mature or Spirit-led, ... it's not because a lot of things, it's not because of whatever.
it's because we still don't have a common agreement and stand on this, whatever you may think, and ignoring it won't make it go away. it's because there's a thorn in our side and it's here to help us grow but we can't seem to divest ourselves of it.
do i have to do this? - no. do i have to make myself look bad when i become frustrated trying to talk about this, when i become passionate about it? - no. do i have to risk what influence and soft power i've developed over these years with each person present, by having been a nice guy and having been quiet and yielding, and now being difficult and unsympathetic? - no. do i have to give up my image and persona of being cool and non-committal to look as if i'm hard on about an issue we can try and ignore for the sake of uneasy peace? - no. do i, do you, ever have to do a single thing about anything to simply be a member of this cg? - ... no.
hahahaha...
has trying become so difficult/ i dunno anymore what to do/ so look what we've become. look, look. what would Jesus say? what would give God the most glory? that we agree to disagree? (sorry, i know we don't, i just quote it, as a possibility). that we agree to accept each brother's or sister's convictions as their own personal level of faith? isn't it very convenient for us then, subsisting independently, or in groups we feel comfortable sharing with, minding our own businesses till kingdom come?
where is our cg heart? and where is our cg soul? can you put a finger on it? or does it feel empty to you?
or do i still sound stupid to you for being this annoyed, this angsty, this aberrant?
please. just one more time, just listen to what i have to say, and respond. don't ignore this, don't disregard this, don't overlook this, don't think you can get away without committing something of yourself to this anymore. i don't want a cg like that, and i know you don't want a cg like that either. we can do something about this, even if it's ugly at first, but maybe we can find a way to make it a beautiful thing as well. spread the word, let's talk about it, let's fix this, let's fix us. let us dig deep and let us stand up and say, enough of this, let's come together and choose to grow, like we did before.
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i haven't got jx's permission for this, but it's been nine days past, so... anyway we should see this. *note that added words are in black.
Yeah, my two cents take on a very tricky issue. Sorry but I really tried to keep it as short as possible. Could you spare twenty minutes of your time to read it?
Jian Xin -
Dear Ian, my new response
Does God change his mind in response to prayer if he can foresee the future?
All along in our discussions, we have argued over two assumptions. First, God exists outside time and foresees the future. Secondly, He changes his mind in response to prayer. I feel that this presents a paradox. The paradox is best illustrated with an example.
Suppose Peter were to pray for his dying father. God, however, being omni potent and present, already knows that Peter will pray for his dad before the prayer is even made. More than that, he even knows His own decision over Peter’s prayer way in advance. (i.e.: since The Beginning) Assume that Peter’s father is an asshole and the wise Lord wanted him dead before the prayer event. If God were to change His mind after the prayer event, than he will be in effect, questioning His own will and wisdom when He made the initial decision to terminate the father. But since God can foresee the future, He can also foresee that He will change his mind. This brings His earlier decision into disrepute- How can God pre-prayer event decide that Peter’s father must die, knowing full well that he will change his mind post prayer? That would be akin to me saying: “I want chocolate ice cream tomorrow but I will change my mind by tomorrow and choose vanilla instead”- Did I really want chocolate in the first place?
I propose that either one of our assumptions is wrong. Either a) God cannot foresee the future or b) God does not change his mind, ever. I feel that choice A inhibits God’s true powers to an earthly view of time and violates His sovereign will. God would have no way of knowing what would happen to His creation if he cannot foresee the future. Furthermore, choice a) conflicts with biblical accounts of God and prophesy. If God cannot foresee the future, then how can mere John foresee it for the matter then? I plump for choice b) instead. I admit that my biblical knowledge is not up to scratch, but I believe that there is no verse in the bible that indicates that God changes his mind in regards to prayer. To me, this is the only weak link in the proposition that I am advancing from which you must attack to answer yes to the question highlighted above. Biblical proof that God changes his mind will change my mind and make me reconsider.
Does prayer even have an effect on the future then? Of course! The fact that God doesn’t change his mind does not preclude the fact that Prayer has a direct effect on the future. I stand firm on two points, 1) God hears our prayers; 2) God answers them. I suspect that God has already heard our prayers and has already decided and acted upon them since the beginning of time. Whether the answers take the form of the supernatural (For example if an angel were to appear and cure Peter’s dying father) or the natural (Doctors eventually manage to bring Peter’s father back to life) is outside the scope of the argument. However, I stress that both views are consistent with an unchanging God.
I feel that it is also appropriate to discuss the concept of Change. To many, change is an ordinary occurrence which is difficult to define. Try coming up with a definition which does not involve the word “difference”! However, change is a scientific concept, irregardless of where it occurs. It is thus interesting to note that from a Physicist’s perspective, Change can only occur over time, that is, Change implies the existence of time. Change cannot exist outside time by any definition. (Try to define change w/o implying time’s existence!) If God were to be unbounded by time, he probably would have to exist outside it. (More on this later) Change then by definition cannot occur with God. To me, this is further evidence of the inconsistency between a) and b): the changing and omnipresent features commonly ascribed to God are inconsistent with each other.
Without wishing to bore you any further, (you’re still with me right?) recent advances in Physics have also indicated that Space and Time are mere properties of our universe. In fact, they change as they lengthen and dilate in the presence of energy and velocity. If we assume the very elegant theories of relativity to be true, then God will probably have to reside outside space and time, whatever that sentence means. For if God created the universe, than ergo he created space-time as well. To me, it is inconceivable for the Creator to exist in Space-time “before” it was even created. He could however, choose to inhabit it for some time as Jesus.
I would also like to clarify my position on the relationship between Logic, Mathematics, and Physics. First, Logic is universal and transcendent. I am of the opinion that it is not a human construct. However, I cannot say that it predates God for that would imply the existence of time in God’s domain, outside space-time. One plus one will always equal two, even if the human race were to be extinguished. Mathematics however, is a human construct. The study of Math is a study of the most formal, precise language in which to explain logical relationships. These relationships cover a lot of ground and the Mathematics required to express or proof all of them may have yet to be created. Maybe they never will. However, I strongly believe that Logic itself does not break down anywhere.
Because the universe exhibits logical properties- since self-consistency is a requirement for existence- Mathematics is used as a shorthand language to describe it. However, just because our understanding of double slit experiments and black holes break down does not mean that logic does. It merely reflects our ignorance of certain properties of the universe, not the fallibility of logic. If we do not interpret the universe correctly, naturally the Math will never work out. Spurious results such as 0=infinity will then occur! New physical interpretation is then required, along with new Mathematics.
FINALLY, If God were to change his mind with regards to Prayer, than what would prevent such a God from changing His mind in the absence of Prayer as well? Furthermore, I would doubt the wisdom of a God who does not make the optimal decision initially, and has to rely on the prayer of others to change His mind and make the wisest choice later. The somewhat whimsical nature of such a God does not tally with the unchanging character of strength, will and sovereignty of His that I know of. The God that I envision is unchanging, both in his love for humanity and in his hatred of sin. Such a God would not be bounded by the constraints of space and time. He could do anything he pleased. He would probably not be bounded to logic as well, although he would not be independent of it- My God is a God of Logic as well. Loving us so much, God gave humanity a gift so precious its very concept would be debated endlessly for ages and yet anchor humanity throughout all of time: Choice. The fact ‘God knows our future’ does not endanger our Free Will. He merely knows the choices we will make, He does not determine them. Our fates are only known by the heavens. They are not preordained by it. The future is ours to make, but God can foresee what a glorious future it will be.
“Free will is right of all sentient beings” - Optimus Prime 2007
i replied to him,
okay. now that you've read that (referring to the email about prayer started by john), and i've read your two cents too, surely you can see that we agree on almost everything, except that i made the mistake of saying that logic fails us. i acknowledge this mistake, and i acknowledge my mistake in saying and believing that logic cannot define faith during cg time on friday. i hold faith as absolute, and thus disregarded logic in the same way i disregarded reason, because faith cannot be bounded by reason, yet it is perfectly and absolutely logical for us to have faith, because we believe in God Almighty. and that is the truest form of logic there is, whereas reason and mathematics are only (as you describe) interpretations, human constructs, etc. used to understand logic. therefore, where faith, and the belief in prayer, is unreasonable, irrational, unscientific and impossible to prove, it is not illogical.
i also think that we disagreed because we jumped at different wordings of what we individually believed in. from your two cents, you say that God cannot change his mind. And that is also what i said in my email, and what i believe in completely. what i wanted to tell you during cg time was that God responds to prayer, prayer has power, and prayer changes things. and from what you say, you completely agree with me as well. therefore on the fundamentals of this, we agree, and in no way contradict each other. i was of the (incorrect) opinion that you did not believe prayer to God to be useful or necessary, whereas you might have been of the opinion that i felt that prayer could make God change his mind, which i have never thought possible, logical, sound, or correct.
i really really admire your writing, and your grasp of logic, it has definitely enlightened me on what logic is and how it is in God. i respect your very mathematical reasoning of God and his precluding of change. the bible states that God is everlasting, unchanging, eternal and forever the same.
jx, in terms of the power of prayer, and God's promises for us, i also want to refer you to these verses:
John 14:13-14: "And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."
Matthew 17:20-21: "He replied, 'Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.'"
Luke 11:9-13: "'So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!'"
now i know that it is foolish and senseless to insist that all these promises do come true in our time, in our world, and in our lives. but these promises hold true, and they will come true when Jesus Christ returns to redeem us.
1st Corinthians 15:20, 23-26: "But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep... Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death."
the preceding passage doesn't directly mention the fulfilment of prayer, but i believe it encompasses this, as well as the end of all the things in this world that separate us from Christ, when Christ returns.
please, tell me what you think of all this, and whether you feel that prayer is essential, effective, or whatever. basically, share with me what your faith leads you to believe. also, refer to the email for our views on this, and reflect as you wish. one cg member to another.
oh! and please keep an eye on the blog! cgdaily.blogspot.com
ian
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and i also told shermaine about this before i told you guys. here's what she said. (also taken without permission {sorry; omgoodness you can't walk in a straight line!? boy that's wind})
hey ian
i'm going to liverpool this weekend! maybe i'll see torres!OKAY, probably not. haha. think i wont even go to Anfield because its not exactly near the city. Neither is old trafford actually. but man u match tickets are actually within sight! not as expensive as i thought it'd be. keeping my fingers crossed! anyway, yeah most people are giant sized.. but they are not fat, just big. i'll be eating their food everyday since my hall is catered so maybe by the end of 6 months you'll see a plus sized me too.
so how has cell been? looking forward to reading about chiaying's views. yes, i do have microsoft word, because my laptop is here with me. and yeah i read the piece jianxin wrote already. and john's blog entry too.
i think the fact that we have differing views on prayer - whether it changes things etc, is because of the different reasons and expectations we have for and of prayer. since we cant possibly do a perfect "control" experiment (excluding the case you brought up in your previous email regarding prayer which i think does have loopholes), we wont be able to find a conclusive answer to this, although speculation and logical thinking might clear the air a bit. so i do think having different convictions about prayer is acceptable, just as we have different reasons for going to church. ultimately prayer is the foundation of our relationship with God, because as in every relationship, the need for communication is undeniable. so i feel that the key here is that prayer is being seen as our form of communication with God.
i got a bit lost with jianxin's mathematics and physics but here's my take on the issue anyway.does God change His mind? i don't think so. i believe that He already has a plan for everything and our prayers are part of that plan. whether or not we pray, He already knows.
"Suppose Peter were to pray for his dying father ... and so on ... Did I really want chocolate in the first place?"
From this, if we consider the fact that God transcends time and space, He wouldn't have had the thought of wanting Peter's father dead before the prayer event. God would have known that 1)Peter's father is dying and 2)on this day and at this time Peter will pray for His father to be saved, both events at the same time. so His decision on whether or not Peter's father dies take into account all factors already, including all prayers for him. so in a sense we cant really say that prayers "changes" God's mind, when it is possible that instead, prayers help make up God's mind.
now, assuming our prayers can change God's mind. but wait. in the first place, why would we even think of changing God's mind when we know that God is all-knowing and He would have the best plan among us all? obviously i wouldn't want my imperfect desires to have a negative implication on the thing i'm praying for. i wouldn't want God to change His perfect plan to suit my imperfect desires (because i cant see into the bigger picture of things and so what i want might not be what is good). but that doesn't mean i don't expect God to listen to my prayers and answer them as i have prayed, since in the perfect world, i am supposed to have grown to have the desires of Christ and so my prayers would be in line with God's good, pleasing and perfect plan. so in a sense what i pray for would be affirming God's will, asking for it to "be done on earth" as in the Lord's prayer. therefore i am praying not because i want to change God's mind but because i am communicating with Him and acknowledging His plan in my life.
not sure i've made myself clear and if what i've said makes sense to you. its getting quite late and i haven't been using much of my brain ever since my exams ended last november, so this is all i can come up with for now. do correct me if my thinking is warped. hah
have a great cny! :)
sherm
and my reply was,
hi shermaine
haha. i told you on msn that you could take it easy on replying to this email. but okay it's still rather appreciated that you did.
anyway i read your blog so haha okay wow going to liverpool! man u tickets within reach! oh you better grab them!!! RONALDO ROONEY GIGGS SCHOLES! OMGOSH.
haha. okay. ... (edited out) ... haha you brought your laptop eh. so you really lugged 30 plus kg there huh. nail clippers and all. lol. about the blog, i decided of myself that i will stop babying it, and let others grow it if they want to, so i resolved to read it once every sunday. so i dunno what's happened to it for awhile. what do you think?
okay i agree with everything you say, except this.
personally, i feel it is unacceptable that we have different takes on prayer. i feel that even though we have a personal relationship with God, and hence our interaction with God is tailor-made for us, our needs and our strengths and our faith, etc., we must still acknowledge that we are worshipping and listening and talking to an ultimate God, almighty and eternal, etc. and for this specific issue of the effectiveness and usefulness of prayer, i think that we must all surely adopt a mentality that God will ALWAYS a) listen to our prayer, b) respond to our faith, c) know what's best for us, and d) bless us accordingly. can God do any less than this? will God do any less than this? surely not. these are self-evident convictions (if you will) about a 'correct' relationship with God. whereas the end-product of prayer and of how God works is questionable and debatable, according to each person's take, given his situation, and given our lack of complete wisdom and understanding, the faith and trust a person has in God can never be questioned, whether it be in trusting God, or trusting him/herself to trust God.
i think this is a key issue. people have always been told to trust God, but they must also trust themselves to trust God, which is to say, to trust God in Spirit, and in truth. a simple example follows:
1) do i trust that God is all-powerful? why, yes, certainly.
2) do i trust that God listens to me when i call on him? urh... sometimes i don't hear/feel a response, but yes, i would believe in that, because the bible says that God is a loving God. but i would like some proof.
3) do i trust that God will do what's best for me? huh, that's a tough one, as far as i've known. well, the church always says so, so i guess i'll trust in him until i have proof that what's happened was never the best for me.
now. i assume (please correct me if i'm wrong) that it is perfectly acceptable to you if other cg people feel this way about prayer, and that it is also acceptable to most members of our cell... but why's there a difference between these three questions? what's the difference? our experiences, knowledge, emotions and faculties?? huh!? (and) aren't we called, aren't we compelled to believe that to all these questions the answer is and must be a sure and resounding yes? or else how else are we supposed to be in God's presence (when praying)?
when Peter asked Jesus to call him to walk on the water, did he go with a doubtful mentality? perhaps. were the others in the boat sceptical? surely.
but now that we know that Christ has risen, that he has given us the Holy Spirit, and that Christ will surely return to bring us to heaven, can we still respond to God's promises as if we didn't know all of these things? can we still, as Peter, be afraid to walk on the water even knowing that God has called us to do so? can we still, as others in the boat, think Peter is crazy and Jesus is joking when he asks us to walk on the water?
how dare we say this verse: "i can do all things through Him who gives me strength." ? isn't there something fundamentally wrong about claiming to be a Christian, (and believe the bible, trust in God, etc.), and yet not have this 'more than conquerors' mentality?
Romans 8:35-39:
"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written:
'For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.'
No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
are we really convinced, or are we not?
if we aren't, then at least we must know that this is what we are called to grow to. So there can be no other convictions about prayer, nor about any of the other promises of God. we cannot deceive ourselves into thinking that this or that conviction is okay in our personal relationship with God (sorry the original words used here are perhaps a touch forceful). but if we do, then we must do so to God.
Romans 14:3-13:
"... for God has accepted him. Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand."
"For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself; for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living. But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. For it is written,
'AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME,
AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD.'
So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.
Therefore, let us not judge one another anymore. Instead, make up your mind not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother’s way."
okay. that's it. remember that you don't have to work on replying to this email. i apologised to you before about dropping this partnership in your lap then and i still do, given the distance and whatnot to think of. having said that, how're you doing? how's the walking with God been? what's in your daily worship / quiet time routine? haha.
take care!
p.s. oh also have a good cny. haha but without bak kwa and mahjong.
ian :)
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that's quite a bit to digest, innit? alright, for making it this far, pat yourself on the back. now, the least, the very least you have to do, is think about it, and say something. no more keeping quiet on the sidelines, please. the only way we can get closure on this is if we all put our foot in and see if there's anything we can agree on.
the first thing i said about this blog was that it wasn't gonna be forced on anyone or anything, because no amount of forcing can accomplish anything in this endeavour, unless people choose to participate. but i am imploring you guys to do something, for our sake.
God bless,
ian
i'd like to talk about the issue we have with prayer, again. but it's not because it's that important, it's not because it's that fundamental, it's not because it's one of the few issues we seriously ever talk about, it's not because of what i feel, it's not because everybody has a view to share and wants to be heard, it's not because i want to convince anybody with my convictions, it's not because i'm doing what i think is right, it's not because i want to raise this issue so people read the blog, it's not because i want to keep bringing this issue to the attention of you guys, it's not because some people want to take it easy and i don't, it's not because i'm long winded and i think you guys are missing the point, it's not because everybody likes to be neutral to each other for the sake of peace, even if they have genuinely strong feelings about the subject, it's not because i want to have this cg discuss this properly like we never have the chance to during cg time and we have this opportunity to which is being neglected, it's not because i like to keep on a thread that nobody wants to continue, it's not because i want to redefine anybody else's faith, it's not because i want to argue about this with my human reasoning and perspectives, it's not because i think i'm very clever or wise or spiritually mature or Spirit-led, ... it's not because a lot of things, it's not because of whatever.
it's because we still don't have a common agreement and stand on this, whatever you may think, and ignoring it won't make it go away. it's because there's a thorn in our side and it's here to help us grow but we can't seem to divest ourselves of it.
do i have to do this? - no. do i have to make myself look bad when i become frustrated trying to talk about this, when i become passionate about it? - no. do i have to risk what influence and soft power i've developed over these years with each person present, by having been a nice guy and having been quiet and yielding, and now being difficult and unsympathetic? - no. do i have to give up my image and persona of being cool and non-committal to look as if i'm hard on about an issue we can try and ignore for the sake of uneasy peace? - no. do i, do you, ever have to do a single thing about anything to simply be a member of this cg? - ... no.
hahahaha...
has trying become so difficult/ i dunno anymore what to do/ so look what we've become. look, look. what would Jesus say? what would give God the most glory? that we agree to disagree? (sorry, i know we don't, i just quote it, as a possibility). that we agree to accept each brother's or sister's convictions as their own personal level of faith? isn't it very convenient for us then, subsisting independently, or in groups we feel comfortable sharing with, minding our own businesses till kingdom come?
where is our cg heart? and where is our cg soul? can you put a finger on it? or does it feel empty to you?
or do i still sound stupid to you for being this annoyed, this angsty, this aberrant?
please. just one more time, just listen to what i have to say, and respond. don't ignore this, don't disregard this, don't overlook this, don't think you can get away without committing something of yourself to this anymore. i don't want a cg like that, and i know you don't want a cg like that either. we can do something about this, even if it's ugly at first, but maybe we can find a way to make it a beautiful thing as well. spread the word, let's talk about it, let's fix this, let's fix us. let us dig deep and let us stand up and say, enough of this, let's come together and choose to grow, like we did before.
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i haven't got jx's permission for this, but it's been nine days past, so... anyway we should see this. *note that added words are in black.
Yeah, my two cents take on a very tricky issue. Sorry but I really tried to keep it as short as possible. Could you spare twenty minutes of your time to read it?
Jian Xin -
Dear Ian, my new response
Does God change his mind in response to prayer if he can foresee the future?
All along in our discussions, we have argued over two assumptions. First, God exists outside time and foresees the future. Secondly, He changes his mind in response to prayer. I feel that this presents a paradox. The paradox is best illustrated with an example.
Suppose Peter were to pray for his dying father. God, however, being omni potent and present, already knows that Peter will pray for his dad before the prayer is even made. More than that, he even knows His own decision over Peter’s prayer way in advance. (i.e.: since The Beginning) Assume that Peter’s father is an asshole and the wise Lord wanted him dead before the prayer event. If God were to change His mind after the prayer event, than he will be in effect, questioning His own will and wisdom when He made the initial decision to terminate the father. But since God can foresee the future, He can also foresee that He will change his mind. This brings His earlier decision into disrepute- How can God pre-prayer event decide that Peter’s father must die, knowing full well that he will change his mind post prayer? That would be akin to me saying: “I want chocolate ice cream tomorrow but I will change my mind by tomorrow and choose vanilla instead”- Did I really want chocolate in the first place?
I propose that either one of our assumptions is wrong. Either a) God cannot foresee the future or b) God does not change his mind, ever. I feel that choice A inhibits God’s true powers to an earthly view of time and violates His sovereign will. God would have no way of knowing what would happen to His creation if he cannot foresee the future. Furthermore, choice a) conflicts with biblical accounts of God and prophesy. If God cannot foresee the future, then how can mere John foresee it for the matter then? I plump for choice b) instead. I admit that my biblical knowledge is not up to scratch, but I believe that there is no verse in the bible that indicates that God changes his mind in regards to prayer. To me, this is the only weak link in the proposition that I am advancing from which you must attack to answer yes to the question highlighted above. Biblical proof that God changes his mind will change my mind and make me reconsider.
Does prayer even have an effect on the future then? Of course! The fact that God doesn’t change his mind does not preclude the fact that Prayer has a direct effect on the future. I stand firm on two points, 1) God hears our prayers; 2) God answers them. I suspect that God has already heard our prayers and has already decided and acted upon them since the beginning of time. Whether the answers take the form of the supernatural (For example if an angel were to appear and cure Peter’s dying father) or the natural (Doctors eventually manage to bring Peter’s father back to life) is outside the scope of the argument. However, I stress that both views are consistent with an unchanging God.
I feel that it is also appropriate to discuss the concept of Change. To many, change is an ordinary occurrence which is difficult to define. Try coming up with a definition which does not involve the word “difference”! However, change is a scientific concept, irregardless of where it occurs. It is thus interesting to note that from a Physicist’s perspective, Change can only occur over time, that is, Change implies the existence of time. Change cannot exist outside time by any definition. (Try to define change w/o implying time’s existence!) If God were to be unbounded by time, he probably would have to exist outside it. (More on this later) Change then by definition cannot occur with God. To me, this is further evidence of the inconsistency between a) and b): the changing and omnipresent features commonly ascribed to God are inconsistent with each other.
Without wishing to bore you any further, (you’re still with me right?) recent advances in Physics have also indicated that Space and Time are mere properties of our universe. In fact, they change as they lengthen and dilate in the presence of energy and velocity. If we assume the very elegant theories of relativity to be true, then God will probably have to reside outside space and time, whatever that sentence means. For if God created the universe, than ergo he created space-time as well. To me, it is inconceivable for the Creator to exist in Space-time “before” it was even created. He could however, choose to inhabit it for some time as Jesus.
I would also like to clarify my position on the relationship between Logic, Mathematics, and Physics. First, Logic is universal and transcendent. I am of the opinion that it is not a human construct. However, I cannot say that it predates God for that would imply the existence of time in God’s domain, outside space-time. One plus one will always equal two, even if the human race were to be extinguished. Mathematics however, is a human construct. The study of Math is a study of the most formal, precise language in which to explain logical relationships. These relationships cover a lot of ground and the Mathematics required to express or proof all of them may have yet to be created. Maybe they never will. However, I strongly believe that Logic itself does not break down anywhere.
Because the universe exhibits logical properties- since self-consistency is a requirement for existence- Mathematics is used as a shorthand language to describe it. However, just because our understanding of double slit experiments and black holes break down does not mean that logic does. It merely reflects our ignorance of certain properties of the universe, not the fallibility of logic. If we do not interpret the universe correctly, naturally the Math will never work out. Spurious results such as 0=infinity will then occur! New physical interpretation is then required, along with new Mathematics.
FINALLY, If God were to change his mind with regards to Prayer, than what would prevent such a God from changing His mind in the absence of Prayer as well? Furthermore, I would doubt the wisdom of a God who does not make the optimal decision initially, and has to rely on the prayer of others to change His mind and make the wisest choice later. The somewhat whimsical nature of such a God does not tally with the unchanging character of strength, will and sovereignty of His that I know of. The God that I envision is unchanging, both in his love for humanity and in his hatred of sin. Such a God would not be bounded by the constraints of space and time. He could do anything he pleased. He would probably not be bounded to logic as well, although he would not be independent of it- My God is a God of Logic as well. Loving us so much, God gave humanity a gift so precious its very concept would be debated endlessly for ages and yet anchor humanity throughout all of time: Choice. The fact ‘God knows our future’ does not endanger our Free Will. He merely knows the choices we will make, He does not determine them. Our fates are only known by the heavens. They are not preordained by it. The future is ours to make, but God can foresee what a glorious future it will be.
“Free will is right of all sentient beings” - Optimus Prime 2007
i replied to him,
okay. now that you've read that (referring to the email about prayer started by john), and i've read your two cents too, surely you can see that we agree on almost everything, except that i made the mistake of saying that logic fails us. i acknowledge this mistake, and i acknowledge my mistake in saying and believing that logic cannot define faith during cg time on friday. i hold faith as absolute, and thus disregarded logic in the same way i disregarded reason, because faith cannot be bounded by reason, yet it is perfectly and absolutely logical for us to have faith, because we believe in God Almighty. and that is the truest form of logic there is, whereas reason and mathematics are only (as you describe) interpretations, human constructs, etc. used to understand logic. therefore, where faith, and the belief in prayer, is unreasonable, irrational, unscientific and impossible to prove, it is not illogical.
i also think that we disagreed because we jumped at different wordings of what we individually believed in. from your two cents, you say that God cannot change his mind. And that is also what i said in my email, and what i believe in completely. what i wanted to tell you during cg time was that God responds to prayer, prayer has power, and prayer changes things. and from what you say, you completely agree with me as well. therefore on the fundamentals of this, we agree, and in no way contradict each other. i was of the (incorrect) opinion that you did not believe prayer to God to be useful or necessary, whereas you might have been of the opinion that i felt that prayer could make God change his mind, which i have never thought possible, logical, sound, or correct.
i really really admire your writing, and your grasp of logic, it has definitely enlightened me on what logic is and how it is in God. i respect your very mathematical reasoning of God and his precluding of change. the bible states that God is everlasting, unchanging, eternal and forever the same.
jx, in terms of the power of prayer, and God's promises for us, i also want to refer you to these verses:
John 14:13-14: "And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."
Matthew 17:20-21: "He replied, 'Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.'"
Luke 11:9-13: "'So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!'"
now i know that it is foolish and senseless to insist that all these promises do come true in our time, in our world, and in our lives. but these promises hold true, and they will come true when Jesus Christ returns to redeem us.
1st Corinthians 15:20, 23-26: "But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep... Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death."
the preceding passage doesn't directly mention the fulfilment of prayer, but i believe it encompasses this, as well as the end of all the things in this world that separate us from Christ, when Christ returns.
please, tell me what you think of all this, and whether you feel that prayer is essential, effective, or whatever. basically, share with me what your faith leads you to believe. also, refer to the email for our views on this, and reflect as you wish. one cg member to another.
oh! and please keep an eye on the blog! cgdaily.blogspot.com
ian
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and i also told shermaine about this before i told you guys. here's what she said. (also taken without permission {sorry; omgoodness you can't walk in a straight line!? boy that's wind}
hey ian
i'm going to liverpool this weekend! maybe i'll see torres!OKAY, probably not. haha. think i wont even go to Anfield because its not exactly near the city. Neither is old trafford actually. but man u match tickets are actually within sight! not as expensive as i thought it'd be. keeping my fingers crossed! anyway, yeah most people are giant sized.. but they are not fat, just big. i'll be eating their food everyday since my hall is catered so maybe by the end of 6 months you'll see a plus sized me too.
so how has cell been? looking forward to reading about chiaying's views. yes, i do have microsoft word, because my laptop is here with me. and yeah i read the piece jianxin wrote already. and john's blog entry too.
i think the fact that we have differing views on prayer - whether it changes things etc, is because of the different reasons and expectations we have for and of prayer. since we cant possibly do a perfect "control" experiment (excluding the case you brought up in your previous email regarding prayer which i think does have loopholes), we wont be able to find a conclusive answer to this, although speculation and logical thinking might clear the air a bit. so i do think having different convictions about prayer is acceptable, just as we have different reasons for going to church. ultimately prayer is the foundation of our relationship with God, because as in every relationship, the need for communication is undeniable. so i feel that the key here is that prayer is being seen as our form of communication with God.
i got a bit lost with jianxin's mathematics and physics but here's my take on the issue anyway.does God change His mind? i don't think so. i believe that He already has a plan for everything and our prayers are part of that plan. whether or not we pray, He already knows.
"Suppose Peter were to pray for his dying father ... and so on ... Did I really want chocolate in the first place?"
From this, if we consider the fact that God transcends time and space, He wouldn't have had the thought of wanting Peter's father dead before the prayer event. God would have known that 1)Peter's father is dying and 2)on this day and at this time Peter will pray for His father to be saved, both events at the same time. so His decision on whether or not Peter's father dies take into account all factors already, including all prayers for him. so in a sense we cant really say that prayers "changes" God's mind, when it is possible that instead, prayers help make up God's mind.
now, assuming our prayers can change God's mind. but wait. in the first place, why would we even think of changing God's mind when we know that God is all-knowing and He would have the best plan among us all? obviously i wouldn't want my imperfect desires to have a negative implication on the thing i'm praying for. i wouldn't want God to change His perfect plan to suit my imperfect desires (because i cant see into the bigger picture of things and so what i want might not be what is good). but that doesn't mean i don't expect God to listen to my prayers and answer them as i have prayed, since in the perfect world, i am supposed to have grown to have the desires of Christ and so my prayers would be in line with God's good, pleasing and perfect plan. so in a sense what i pray for would be affirming God's will, asking for it to "be done on earth" as in the Lord's prayer. therefore i am praying not because i want to change God's mind but because i am communicating with Him and acknowledging His plan in my life.
not sure i've made myself clear and if what i've said makes sense to you. its getting quite late and i haven't been using much of my brain ever since my exams ended last november, so this is all i can come up with for now. do correct me if my thinking is warped. hah
have a great cny! :)
sherm
and my reply was,
hi shermaine
haha. i told you on msn that you could take it easy on replying to this email. but okay it's still rather appreciated that you did.
anyway i read your blog so haha okay wow going to liverpool! man u tickets within reach! oh you better grab them!!! RONALDO ROONEY GIGGS SCHOLES! OMGOSH.
haha. okay. ... (edited out) ... haha you brought your laptop eh. so you really lugged 30 plus kg there huh. nail clippers and all. lol. about the blog, i decided of myself that i will stop babying it, and let others grow it if they want to, so i resolved to read it once every sunday. so i dunno what's happened to it for awhile. what do you think?
okay i agree with everything you say, except this.
personally, i feel it is unacceptable that we have different takes on prayer. i feel that even though we have a personal relationship with God, and hence our interaction with God is tailor-made for us, our needs and our strengths and our faith, etc., we must still acknowledge that we are worshipping and listening and talking to an ultimate God, almighty and eternal, etc. and for this specific issue of the effectiveness and usefulness of prayer, i think that we must all surely adopt a mentality that God will ALWAYS a) listen to our prayer, b) respond to our faith, c) know what's best for us, and d) bless us accordingly. can God do any less than this? will God do any less than this? surely not. these are self-evident convictions (if you will) about a 'correct' relationship with God. whereas the end-product of prayer and of how God works is questionable and debatable, according to each person's take, given his situation, and given our lack of complete wisdom and understanding, the faith and trust a person has in God can never be questioned, whether it be in trusting God, or trusting him/herself to trust God.
i think this is a key issue. people have always been told to trust God, but they must also trust themselves to trust God, which is to say, to trust God in Spirit, and in truth. a simple example follows:
1) do i trust that God is all-powerful? why, yes, certainly.
2) do i trust that God listens to me when i call on him? urh... sometimes i don't hear/feel a response, but yes, i would believe in that, because the bible says that God is a loving God. but i would like some proof.
3) do i trust that God will do what's best for me? huh, that's a tough one, as far as i've known. well, the church always says so, so i guess i'll trust in him until i have proof that what's happened was never the best for me.
now. i assume (please correct me if i'm wrong) that it is perfectly acceptable to you if other cg people feel this way about prayer, and that it is also acceptable to most members of our cell... but why's there a difference between these three questions? what's the difference? our experiences, knowledge, emotions and faculties?? huh!? (and) aren't we called, aren't we compelled to believe that to all these questions the answer is and must be a sure and resounding yes? or else how else are we supposed to be in God's presence (when praying)?
when Peter asked Jesus to call him to walk on the water, did he go with a doubtful mentality? perhaps. were the others in the boat sceptical? surely.
but now that we know that Christ has risen, that he has given us the Holy Spirit, and that Christ will surely return to bring us to heaven, can we still respond to God's promises as if we didn't know all of these things? can we still, as Peter, be afraid to walk on the water even knowing that God has called us to do so? can we still, as others in the boat, think Peter is crazy and Jesus is joking when he asks us to walk on the water?
how dare we say this verse: "i can do all things through Him who gives me strength." ? isn't there something fundamentally wrong about claiming to be a Christian, (and believe the bible, trust in God, etc.), and yet not have this 'more than conquerors' mentality?
Romans 8:35-39:
"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written:
'For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.'
No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
are we really convinced, or are we not?
if we aren't, then at least we must know that this is what we are called to grow to. So there can be no other convictions about prayer, nor about any of the other promises of God. we cannot deceive ourselves into thinking that this or that conviction is okay in our personal relationship with God (sorry the original words used here are perhaps a touch forceful). but if we do, then we must do so to God.
Romans 14:3-13:
"... for God has accepted him. Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand."
"For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself; for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living. But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. For it is written,
'AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME,
AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD.'
So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.
Therefore, let us not judge one another anymore. Instead, make up your mind not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother’s way."
okay. that's it. remember that you don't have to work on replying to this email. i apologised to you before about dropping this partnership in your lap then and i still do, given the distance and whatnot to think of. having said that, how're you doing? how's the walking with God been? what's in your daily worship / quiet time routine? haha.
take care!
p.s. oh also have a good cny. haha but without bak kwa and mahjong.
ian :)
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that's quite a bit to digest, innit? alright, for making it this far, pat yourself on the back. now, the least, the very least you have to do, is think about it, and say something. no more keeping quiet on the sidelines, please. the only way we can get closure on this is if we all put our foot in and see if there's anything we can agree on.
the first thing i said about this blog was that it wasn't gonna be forced on anyone or anything, because no amount of forcing can accomplish anything in this endeavour, unless people choose to participate. but i am imploring you guys to do something, for our sake.
God bless,
ian
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