Is there anything wrong with gambling?

hi, this is to elaborate on what was discussed during cg time at the previous TF, where calvin brought up the topic of betting

the following answer is taken from a study bible i have:
"In the Bible, the sacred lot was cast as a means of determining the mind of God (Lev. 16:7-10); Jon. 1:7; Acts 1:24-26). In ancient Israel it was assumed that God in control of the dice and that He would speak to His people this way. Although there is no such thing as luck and God is in control of everything, when somebody takes money that belongs to God (because everything we have belongs to God) and bets it on the turn of a roulette wheel, or a turn of a card, he is asking for trouble. He is saying by his actions, 'God, I am risking Your money and my faith on the hope that You'll "make it happen!"' When you act like that, you are putting to Lord to the test. You are tempting God, and that is a sin (Deut. 6:16; Luke 4:10-12).
"Gambling can destroy a person, becoming an obsession and a compulsion just like alcoholism. The habitual gambler ruins his family and his life, and some have stolen to get money for gambling. It can become a disease that has destroyed literally tens of thousands of people.
"The pervasiveness of gambling in our society teaches people that fame, success, and fortune are available without work or struggle. The virtues of industry, thrift, careful investment, and patience are all undermined by this vice. In their place come human greed, lust, avarice, sloth, and a live-for-the-moment mentality. How tragic to see legislatures link their budgetary futures to legalised gambling and lotteries that will undermine the very virtues their citizens need for true long-range growth and prosperity!"

the following are some email that were forwarded among cg leaders in my previous church, in light of the government announcing it was gonna go ahead with building the IRs. one of them is a mail from a cg leaer, and the first response to it is a mail from another cg leader, and the 2nd response is from the then-youth pastor. it's all very long so, if nothing else, just read the response from the youth pastor:

Mail 1:

hmm I'm not entirely sure how this goes down with you guys, but I think as an act, gambling is an activity motivated (generally speaking) by greed and self gain, materialistically speaking.

Tackling it based on a few concepts:1)Focus, 2) Love, 3)Prudence

To me, what comes to mind as 'wrong' about gambling is the fact that in general, the objective of gambling is the monetary gain itself. Gambling, then, would reflect the priorities in our hearts: Money is the most important.

Even if the idea is to 'get enough money to provide for some need', the focus is still on money--which is the wrong focus. It is indeed true that even in the workplace, this can happen, for people that do 'honest' work are sometimes as (or even more) concerned with hoarding up wealth and providing for financial needs. As Christians, however, I believe we are called to a different standard. Based on Matt 6:19 and Luke 12:16-21, I should say that Scripture warns fairly explicitly against storing up wealth for its own sake. Coupled with Matt 6:25-34 (Jesus' promise that the Lord will provide) I think Scripture urges us to release ourselves from concern about our daily needs.

I believe the difference between 'honest' work and gambling (inclusive of playing around in the stock market) is that at the workplace, you actually render a certain service to others. As Christians, this service/attitude is what our focus should be on, because that is the thing that is counted towards the 'treasures in heaven moths and rust do not destroy and thieves do not break in and steal'. At the workplace, the focus on money can be replaced by a focus on people and relationships with people, thus fulfilling the 2 greatest commandments: Loving God by loving your neighbour.

In contrast, gambling is highly individualistic; your gain comes at the expense of another's loss--there is no such thing as a win-win situation, unless both people get a winning bet (which, if I'm not mistaken, implies that the reward is shared. I imagine neither party will be too happy about that). The focus of gambling is exclusively the self, not others, as we ought to be focused on.

With regards to risk taking; I imagine that the idea of prudence is raised. Gambling leaves everything in the hands of chance--I don't think God favours the idea of tweaking the odds in our favour. While this chancy nature of gambling is part of the thrill and the high of it(and the thing that makes it so addictive), it is firstly a focus on gratifying the flesh with adrenaline charges etc, and secondly It is bad stewardship because of the extreme risk involved. It was mentioned that we would then need to define what is a 'reasonable' level of risk: I have no idea, but I know gambling falls way short of the mark. Even investing in chancy property and stock is bad stewardship. A prudent investment involves research, analysis of the market in question and taking calculated risks. Certainly there is no such thing as a 100% certainty in investments, but the element of preparation is crucial for a good (and thus prudent) investment. If there is good preparation and foresight, even if the investment fails, I think it can be considered good stewardship... I think God doesn't look at our material result, but at the heart we put into it. The preparation and thought that goes into a good investment also shows the attitude we serve God with; Reckless with what we are given materially, means reckless with what we are given in every other way.

Mail 2:

" I believe... Loving God by loving your neighbour." In contrast...The focus of gambling is exclusively the self, not others, as we ought to be focused on."

I believe that for most people - Christians, even - in the labour force, the primary motivation for waking up each morning and going to work is to earn his keep. We're called to be others-centred, yes, but whether that means we should be making our inter-personal relationships in the workplace as the focus of our careers is highly questionable.

Gambling, for many, is entertainment. Along with watching soccer, having good meals and taking long strolls along the beach, gambling is an indulgence that gratifies, admittedly, the individual. My question is: do we, as Christians, need to plan our existence around activities that focus on other people? Is it a sin to, every now and then, engage in activities that satisfy us (and only us)? I doubt it.

With regards to risk taking...Reckless with what we are given materially, means
reckless with what we are given in every other way"

As much as we'd like to believe that capital investments can be "prepared" for, the fact of the matter is that stock market fluctuations are almost entirely unpredictable. This is why people invest in mutual funds - by trading in hundreds of different companies, you lower the risk you take. My main problem with the "good stewardship" argument is this: if this is true, then it would justify a gambler that painstakingly reads up on the myriads skills and strategies of Texas Hold 'Em before going to the casino. Did he prepare extensively? Most certainly. Did he take calculated risks? Yes he did. Is it then okay for him to gamble? Just to extend this a bit further, it's interesting to note also how the top players in the annual World Poker tournament tend to be the same people though thousands take part each year, proving that poker is as much about skill, if not more, as it is luck.

Next, the problem with the "bad stewardship" argument is that it makes the assumption that people are going to wage entire fortunes and life savings on the roulette table. If I had $10,000 in the bank, and I took $10 and recklessly splurged it all in a round of poker, knowing full well before I played that chances are, I was going to lose - does this make me a bad steward of my money, considering I still have $9,990 in savings?

I admit that I'm struggling very much with this issue, because I'm not convinced that a casino is necessarily a hotbed of sin. The Anglican diocese has made a very strong stand against this, one which I'd like to support as a cell leader, but until arguments that are backed strongly by the word are made, this will continue to be a struggle for me.

Mail 3 (by the youth pastor):

hmm I'm not entirely sure how this goes down with you guys, but I think as an act, gambling is an activity motivated (generally speaking) by greed and self gain, materialistically speaking.

Good work Han Min. At least some are thinking about this. My comments about your reply though, and this in some way reflects my own thoughts, is that while most people can demonstrate that:-

1. Gambling is a stupid thing to do (per risks)
2. Gambling tends to be motivated by greed
3. Gambling can have bad consequences (directly or indirectly)
4. Gambling promotes bad character

etc. but no one has demonstrated how this is a sin. There are many stupid
things in the bible, but they are not tantamount to sin.

Take the following few verses and think about it a little:-

Deut 14:26:- "You may spend the money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen, or sheep, or wine, or strong drink, or whatever your heart desires. ...."

There seems to be a sense in which if you have fulfilled your responsibilities and have some extra money (read disposable income), it's really up to you how you want to spend it, even if on some risky exercise such as gambling, or risky investment.

Deut 23:20:- "You may charge interest to a foreigner, but to your countrymen you shall not charge interest, ...."

Here we can see that monetary gain is not intrinsically bad, except when it oppresses (in this case God's people).

Matt 25:27 (and also Luke 19:23) ".... you ought to have put my money in the bank .... I would have received my money back with interest."

It appears that the master in this parable is looking for a return on his investment, one way or another.

And just for fun, Ecc 10:19:- ".... and money is the answer to everything."

Of course, it should be pointed out that greed cannot be confined to money alone, for money is afterall just a symbolic representation for work or effort. (Marx and Adam Smith has more to say on this subject).

You may consider all those circus games where you spend 20 cents and try to win something, or the UFO picker game. Silly? Yes, but are they sins?

Concerning the issue of gain at the loss of another. I'm not sure this is such a clear issue. After all, ALL gain comes at the loss of another except in perfectly fair exchanges. For example, if the shopkeeper marks up his product by 20%, he gains 20% at the loss of another when he sells it. Is this a sin? Now suppose he decides to employ a random markup as a marketing scheme, ie. you pick the product and the computer will randomly assign a markup (or down) from -40% to 40%. If you get lucky you gain 40% at the expense of the shopkeeper. On the other hand, the shopkeeper could gain 40% at your loss. A very chancy proposition, and a gamble. Is this a sin? What about those closeout sales? The consumers are buying things below cost, ie. they gain at the loss of the shop owner. Is this sin? What about "lucky draws" where if you spend an amount, you are entitled to win something big?

To give a direction to this thought, you cannot say if something is a sin based simply on the idea of gain or loss. There are several reasons to this:-
1. You need to consider what is called fair value, which is not a fixed thing.
2. You need to consider the free choice of both parties involved in the exchange.

In a sense, this is the basis for what we call the free-market or the capitalistic system. Both parties exercise their freedom of choice in an exchange. If both agree to the risks and the value involved, then it's fair for them. When people go to the gambling table, well aware of the potential risks involved, even if the actual price is not a fixed point, but a range (from loss to gain), then they are exercising their free choice. In this case, it would be hard-pressed to argue that exploitation is involved because no one forced them to go there. The exceptions to this would be if:-
1. The odds are secretly altered (ie. cheating)
2. The person is an addict and his weakness is being exploited

So, to reiterate, I agree strongly that gambling is a stupid thing to do, but what I am looking for is what makes this stupid thing a sin.

For the record, I've never been in a casino, ever. I personally avoid all lucky draws, have never bought a lottery ticket in all my life, and never even tried the UFO picker game! I think, with Paul in 1 Tim 6:10 that "the love of money is a root or all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs." (NASB)

"Stupid is as stupid does" (but does that make it a sin?)