please, read John Wesley.

boy, long posts sure are hard to read. i'll say.

first. i make no apologies. i will be zealous for what i believe in.

the Word needs no defending. i believe that the Truth as it is written is perfect, holy, complete, etc., yet also in the sense that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit is perfectly explained and completely understandable from the Word. God's character is mysterious, but the Word is a guide to our paths.

Mark 10:15 - "I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it."

we must talk about the idea of 'context', and to do so here is as good as at any other place. we use the word 'context' to identify what parts of the Word apply or do not apply in different environments. this is biblical, inasmuch as the new covenant renders the old covenant obsolete.

Hebrews 8:8-9 - "... The time is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers..."

Hebrews 8:13 - "By calling this covenant 'new,' he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear."

a good rule of thumb is, inevitably, whether the adoption or dismissal of a particular piece of Word glorifies God. however,

Matthew 5:17 - "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

it is unbiblical to dismiss any part of the Word as having been decontextualised, or having been deconstructed, etc, for the fact that God breathed the Word to us, and it is perfect for us. it is incomplete to quote single verses with single points, but it is utterly wrong to pick out verses that do not apply to us in the belief that they are not in our context.

moving on. i believe that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit can be understood by a little child; no other wisdom will suffice. theologians may have been debating about stuff for as long as they have, the point is that there is only one Truth, just as God only has one eternal character. in heaven, we will all know the one Truth, therefore some must be right, and some must be wrong.

the key to what is right before God is surely to seek after him. and there is only one Truth.

i wiki-ed John Piper and Calvinism and predestination. let me truthfully summarise what i found. he is Reformed (aka Calvinist) and believes in double predestination. It is called double predestination because it holds that God chose both whom to save and whom to damn, as opposed to single predestination which contends that though he chose whom to save, he did not choose whom to damn.

Calvinists often quote Romans 8-9 for their belief in double predestination. please read them. Romans 9 says that God chose to hate Esau but love Jacob, God will have mercy on whom he has mercy, it does not depend on men's desire or effort, but God's mercy, God hardened Pharaoh's heart, God bore with patience the objects of his destruction to show his wrath and make his power known, and to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy.

to begin with, (and this is rather long), read this:

http://new.gbgm-umc.org/umhistory/wesley/sermons/58/. it is a sermon by John Wesley against predestination. and it is exactly right.

and after reading this, i must admit to being ashamed of myself for not being more humble and gentle... the Word does not need to be defended.

http://new.gbgm-umc.org/umhistory/wesley/sermons/128/ this follows. it completely denounces predestination.

though these are long, yet in them is every answer for every thing we have discussed on friday.

please. as Christians, we all have to read this.