ANNOUNCEMENT!
hello everybody, especially those who weren't at cell, i am doing some publicity work. my dad will be conducting some seminar entitled "life stewardship: a biblical and practical approach to time management" at wesley methodist church. in case the title of the seminar isnt self-explanatory enough, you can get a brochure from myself to find out more. it's being held on 20/21 feb frm 7.30pm-10pm and it costs $4 for materials. can pay on the day itself. if anyone's interested in going, pls let me know.
and since i have your attention, i might as well post some thoughts about friday's cg.
For those who weren't at cell last fri, we were watching some dvd regarding prayer and answering questions related to what was shown. The idea of "why we pray" was touched upon once again, and i feel led to say some stuff (which may or may not overlap with the email i typed out previously concering the concept of whether prayer works. If you want it, i still have it, or you can scroll down, or you can click here).
I think that, first of all, we all have to admit that we have different comprehensions and different convictions about prayer. But more importantly, i feel that we all need to come to the consensus that prayer is an act of faith. In realising, and reflecting upon, this, i believe that all of us will be reminded that faith plays a very large part of Christianity, and that it is also the most illogical part of Christianity (to put it very crudely and bluntly).
It is faith, or more precisely the concept of faith, that prevents us from bringing others to Christ on our own strength alone (because these people have to ultimately make their own steps of faith to come to Christ), and it is also faith that gives us hope to believe that the people we are reaching out to will eventually come to Christ. Different levels of faith in different people will determine how they react to the scenarios mentioned here, and prayer could very well be a reflection of the level of a person's faith. On the other hand, people convicted differently might not believe so, possibly because their personal experiences have not led them to believe in such a way.
Our faith is strengthened when these people are brought to Christ, and it is our faith that strengthens us when these people reject Christ or are lost before they accept Christ. Faith is necessary in accepting these losses and trusting that God will use the experience for good, no matter in what way (from experience, God works in mysterious ways; this applies to how He does good as well). More often than not, such faith is manifested in the form of prayer. Other times, faith could be manifested in a form of stoicism; a general acceptance of the way things are going and refusing to despair over them. Once again, the level of our relationship with God comes into action here.
Having said all this, i feel that, in addition, it is necessary to remember that we are all only human; it is impossible for us to fully comprehend how God works or the rationale behind His actions. The application of faith in order to accept this is very necessary. Some might argue then that it seems slightly absurd or contrived to just attribute everything to "God's mysterious ways" as an escape clause, which is something that i doubt i could adequately contend on my own knowledge, but to which i would suggest that whoever is in doubt try to find some other way to explain their own question and see whether it suitably solves their doubt. At the same time, it is important to distinguish between child-like faith and blind faith, but this isn't the point of this entry.
How does this then relate to the idea of "why we pray"? As i mentioned before, 1) prayer is an act of faith, and 2) we probably have our own convictions about prayer. At the end of the day, prayer is also a very personal thing, and so are the reasons for why one prays. Each person has his/her own level of conviction toward prayer and the reasons for praying, in the same way that each person has his/her own level of faith. The convictions of a person who prays as a form of communion with God are as equally legitimate as the convictions of a person who prays to God in order to intercede for others, or as a form of supplication. It takes faith to believe that when you pray, there is actually a God listening to you, and that you aren't merely talking to yourself.
In conclusion, i'd like to reiterate that, just as how people have different levels of faith, people have different convictions toward the purpose of praying. In the same way that people's faiths are shaped by their experiences, people's convictions toward the idea of prayer and the reason for praying are also very personal. While we might sometimes not view other people's convictions toward prayer as sound or agreeable, i think that it is necessary to respect their level of conviction, because things like these ultimately cannot be intellectually articulated for people.
ok ironically, i left out any bible references in this post, as it's meant to be food for thought more than something theologically foolproof. if anyone would like to point out things from what i said that should be clarified based on biblical reference, pls let me know and ill try to find relevant passages
Monday, January 28, 2008
Sunday, January 27, 2008
from our past email (on prayer)
From: Jessica Quek (jessica_quek87@hotmail.com)
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 8:49:21 PM
RE: my 2cents worth for cg discussion on 16/11/07
hi cg, i thought i should say something, since well, i was part of the 'heated discussion' tt u all described.
i don't enjoy being in such discussions and sometimes, when dragged out, they can be a waste of everybody's time;
but i felt tt there was a need to this time because i felt that it was something that needed to be ironed out. sorry about it.
like kash said, thanks john and ian for sending such long emails; not very used to it, but they're much appreciated. see you all on fri.
blessings,jessica.
From: itadakimasu27@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: my 2cents worth for cg discussion on 16/11/07
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:10:49 +0000
HELLO guys, well i agree with mostly what is said. Ian and thanks for the case study.Especially poignant to me.My dad always asks me:You Chrisitians believe in your God right?But if you are sick,will God cure you?Will He send medicine or money from heaven?OR he says" Christians are not any better people--they are just as self-centered. When they pray they pray for themselves,they don't pray for God." (though praying FOR God is an ironic thought)
To these I haven't found the answers,I cower away and just keep praying for him in my own time.
In response to the debate at hand,I would say whether prayer changes things or not, was never an important question for me.I still pray because God is really like a friend,an intimate other to me and I cannot help but tell Him all my hopes and desires,ask Him about my life and future,about friends that I care for(intercession).I must say Im a dangerously Spirit-led person,lacking in knowledge or theology which i will try to brush up on in the near future.
My question to this debate is DESIRES.Because desires are the things which take faith to pray for.So what does it mean to be surrendered to the Lord?Does it mean that we do not pray for desires because we are surrendered and we trust in the plans that God have for us,to prosper us and not to harm us?How can we distinguish a desire that God puts on our heart?Are out hopes and dreams desires that God puts on our heart that He seriously intends for us to pursue? can/will He crush them along the way?When do we stop praying for something and start surrendering,at which point do we let it go or do we see it as a test of faith to pray even harder?
Sorry I have to do this but let's take "FACING THE GIANTS" for example,a mini case-study,hopefully everyone can relate to:
Coach had a bad time with his job.Wasnt one bad thing that came along the way,but many,logically directing him away from the job.How does he know it is not God signallinghim to change jobs,because when windows of opportunities are closed,it could be God directing you elsewhere.If took it in stride,had an accepting attitude to things under the guise of "surrendering to God's will"(the way things turn out, God is just not leading me there), then he very well would have quit the job prematurely.
But he took these things that were against him as a challenge of faith, bashing through the odds with God.He desired to coach the team to victory a lot:perhaps a God-given desire.
So is it true that if you have a strong desire at heart,a hope, a dream, it must be from God and you pursue it relentlessly as a faith journey?or is hope for miracles something that is strictly to be kept within movies?Or perhaps is there a time that comes where we weigh out the opportunity costs and surrender "God,I want this a lot but maybe it's not what You have in mind for me afterall."
My two cents worth is that: in prayer we must DARE TO.It is growing in courage in asking boldly from God,not like you are his boss,but like a son asking his father for candy,acknowledging Hissovereignity in it all,yet asking.It is true that there is a bigger picture that we cannot see,we wont know how God fits in all the pieces,because we are ultimately only a small piece ourselves. we've I'm sure we've discovered new things when we walk unexpected paths that weren't our original desires but God's will.
Then should we then back down,give it all up and float as fate or just make logical decisions according to tangible outcomes that God has allowed to happen?Life might be easier that way but I believe that praying against the odds and asking for what is not humanly possible,is quite the essence of faith.of course we are not talking about the "God let me strike toto tomorrow" kind of miracles here.
A sense of expectancy and believing it is possible,guides one's hand,though it is God who paves the way and gives us hope.Part of prayer is asking for peace to accept what we can't change,but that shouldn't stop us from asking from God boldly the next time round(as long as the request is Godly.)Ultimately I believe prayer really trains a man to look above himself and look to God for a miracle.Hey I know we're 20 and all,but isnt part of faith, still, about miracles?
It is also a growth journey of overcoming your faithlessness:But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.-James 1:6For if we ONLY ask for what is foreseable and humanly possible, what then are we saying about our trust in God?
A man shouldnt be stubborn but he should be of conviction and faith.(sounds good but the line is really quite thin and hard to draw)
Another way to look at prayer is not whether it changes things or not, but the value it brings to our spiritual lives and our relationship with God.
Sometimes I think CG discussion gets hindered by words.We all have our views I believe,but being spiritual matters,these are complex and hard to put into words.I have a lot of trouble finding the right words,I dont think Im a very good communicator at all.In this sense,writing helps better,gives time to better express.
Keep this alive guys.ian and john,lotsa valuable stuff in your writing! to the rest, God bless for your exams yall.dont worry,they're really quite a small part in life.:) ,just a really small but impt part.
:)kash
From: rejuvenate03@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: my 2cents worth for cg discussion on 16/11/07
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:56:47 +0000
heh i'm in the midst of doing some silly differentiation stuff and guess i prob wont do anything n forget abt this if i dont reply now..so short one just in response to the first part..
well of course when the grp's too big, not everyone gets to share and some dominate the discussion. but i'd say that oppportunities are given to everyone to speak or at least most of the time when i facilitate, i try to ask everyone at least once. then its up to whether the person wants to share coz of coz i do believe even though they may appear quiet, they have opinions to share which i feel is a good time n place to be encouraged!
with regards to intense discussion, well diff pple have diff views abt it..some love it. they think it helps us to stimulate our knowledge of God and in some way unite us more through 'rubbing shoulders' but having said that, some dont like it. they see the tension. feel uncomfortable abt it n see it as tension n unhealthy for CG. so there must be a balance i wld say.
and also CG time besides a time for discussion about issues, the bible which is what we're doing - great!, is also a time for us to care for one another. i wld say btw growing in the knowledge of God as a CG and caring for ppl, caring for someone who might be gg through some things affecting him or her overrides our time to discuss and learn from one another in terms of understanding the Word tog. that is why small grp time is impt.
i think praying more as a CG is impt. and we need to invest more time in that. i mean we got so much talking abt prayer and how it moves God's heart and all right, so all the more shldnt we be praying more esp as a CG. together we pray, we seek, we commit events, ppl unto God, together we see God's answers to our prayers, we see His glory and sovereignity and that He in turn blesses us coz we're stronger in unity in Him :)
some, including me saw that Fri when we spent considerably more time praying for one another as q a huge growth for our cg. just seeing how we show concern for one another, praying and committing one another to the Lord is really cool.
so yea got to balance and its good that we have ppl who hv diff perspectives so it keeps things more balanced, if u know what i mean...haha coz i dont really know what i'm talking abt now..back to differentiation and integration!
love, chia ying
From: the_invisible_mirage@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: my 2cents worth for cg discussion on 16/11/07
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 23:32:08 +0800
Good man.
i kinda felt that we glossed over this again, as we tend to do during cg. but here and now is a better time to discuss it, eh.
firstly, this appeal is not an original one, but let me echo the sentiments of others here, in an encouragement for us not to get too fixated on a topic, such that we take away the opportunity for others to speak as well. you know what i'm getting at here lah... if we're to grow, then we have to hear from everyone. it's not that the people who are quiet are un-opinionated on the subject, they're just waiting their turn.
but let's have good discussions as well. think carefully about what we have that adds to the discussion, and so to speak, pick your spots. sadly, cg discussion isn't buddy buddy time; our three hours has to be carefully protected so that everyone's in on the program. personally, i wish that we'd not be afraid of having intense discussions, and also that we'd take out a little time from announcements, prayer for events, etc. =P, to extend a discussion that is Spirit-led and that a few people would find crucial to their Christian approach. although i more than understand that sometimes we just have to move on and the post-discussion stuff is important too.
ok. i generally dislike using case examples to prove anything, it feels too much like GP, and GP is bullshit. but here's an interesting one. this is taken from the bestseller, 'The God Delusion' by Richard Dawkins, an atheist biologist. this is dangerous literature.
'An amusing, if rather pathetic, case study in miracles is the Great Prayer Experiment: does praying for patients help them recover? ... Francis Galton was the first to analyse scientifically ... he noted that ... in Britain ... entire congregations prayed ... for the health of the royal family. Shouldn't they, therefore, be unusually fit? ... Galton ... found no statistical difference. His intention may have been satirical, as also when he prayed over randomized plots of land to see if the plants would grow any faster (they didn't.)
More recently, the physicist Russell Stannard (one of Britain's three well-known religious scientists) ... an initiative ... to test experimentally the proposition that praying for sick patients improves their health.
... care was taken to tell them (the people praying) only the first name and initial letter of the surname (of patients being prayed for. but the patients didn't know if they were being prayed for or not.) Apparently that would be enough to enable God to pinpoint the right hospital bed.
... the idea of doing such experiments is open to a generous measure of ridicule, and the project duly received it...
... a Dr. Benson and his team monitored 1,802 patients at six hospitals, all of whom received coronary bypass surgery... divided into three groups, Group 1 received prayers and didn't know it, Group 2 ... received no prayers and didn't know it... Group 3 received prayers and did know it.
... they (the praying people) were told to (pray) ... "for a successful surgery with quick, healthy recovery and no complications." The results, reported in the American Heart Journal of April 2006, were clear-cut. There was no difference between those patients who were prayed for and those who were not... There was a difference between those who knew they had been prayed for and those who did not know one way or the other; but it went in the wrong direction. Those who knew they had been the beneficiaries of prayer suffered significantly more complications that those who did not.
... it was no surprise that this study was opposed by theologians... the Oxford theologian Richard Swinburne ... objected to it on the grounds that God answers prayers only if they are offered up for good reasons.
... Needless to say, the negative results of the experiment will not shake the faithful. Bob Barth, the spiritual director of the Missouri prayer ministry which supplied some of the experimental prayers, said: "A person of faith would say that this study is interesting, but we've been praying for a long time and we've seem prayer work, we know it works, and the research on prayer and spirituality is just getting started." Yeah, right: we know from our faith that prayer works, so if evidence fails to show it we'll just soldier on until finally we get the result we want.'
okay. let's be sensible and ignore this case. that was just an interesting aside.
if everyone were to speak personally, we can all surely say that we believe prayer to God changes things, for the Bible truth that God responds to faith, and God listens to prayer. if not, i don't see how we can be Christian. but what changes? logic dictates that God knows all, time, non-time, concepts built for man that do not apply to God. logic dictates that God already knows He's going to do what, so He doesn't ever have to 'change His mind.' so because God knows everything that ever happens, nothing we say or do can change what is going to happen by His will (everything, actually.) expanding on that, no prayer we have can really persuade God to do anything else/ convince Him of the necessitude of having something happen, that He knows is already going to happen. Doesn't it mean that the personal choices we make as Christians are pointless as God already knows if we ultimately chose to go to heaven or to hell? of course not. but i wouldn't tell you why.
so maybe we pray for things that are less clear cut, so that we can claim subjective victories in things that happen. for example, we pray that the bus comes, we pray that people will be saved at a certain event, we pray that God will take care of us tomorrow. we pray that God will speak to us some way or other. we pray for things in the future, we remind ourselves that we cannot demand of God, that we cannot set a time for these things to happen, we cannot be disappointed when prayer fails now. these are simple steps to faith-building, faith-perpetuating, safe, prayers. lo and behold, prayer works.
on the other hand, we also say that prayer opens and aligns our hearts and our minds to the will of God, it brings us to God's heart, it uplifts us, it gives us peace, it gives us humility, it gives us wisdom. it encourages brothers and sisters in Christ to know they are being prayed for, it brings congregations together in fellowship under the wise ministrations of a pastor. prayer in a group allows us to share and sympathise with the perspectives of other believers. prayer keeps us on our toes, we acknowledge our sins before God when we pray, we pray for others before ourselves, we check our consciences before we pray for blessings. we give praise to God in prayer for things that work well, in ways that we can and cannot imagine. we look at people who pray, and they seem externally to be happier, more contented and more spiritually complete. finally, we know that God desires our worship and our relationship with Him, and He alone knows what pleases Him, and He alone knows why He wants us to pray to Him. so all this leads us to believe in prayer.
these are all well and good, but it takes a personal faith to believe in prayer. a personal faith that is self-convinced, and as such, undeniable. let me go on to say personally that i am a firm believer that prayer changes things. God responds to faithful prayer. imagine if tomorrow He said that he wanted to rain fire and brimstone on Singapore. would you not step up and say, 'Lord, if there are five good men in Singapore, would You not spare Singapore?' or would you stand by and think, 'it's up to you, Lord. You know best. You always decide what happens.' i have also had amazing things happen to me after a prayer, though not necessarily after qt. some things have happened that i thought i would be truly blessed to have happen to me, and i am thankful to God that they have happened, and i am also thankful that i can pray to Him for them. we are blessed if God 'visits' us emotionally when we seek Him, and we should not consider a lack of emotional confirmation or circumstantial evidence as the non-presence or uncaring side of God. but why not? because we fail to understand a lot of things. because God works in mysterious ways. non-answers, essentially, but by these too there can be answers.
we can be logical as much as we like. but there are answers in faith that defy logic. and logic cannot defy faith because logic fails us.
well haha that's that. respond respond respond! but of course study hard first.
ian
> From: johnnyworm007@hotmail.com>
Subject: my 2cents worth for cg discussion on 16/11/07>
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:54:08 +0800> > >
hello everybody,> >
im very upset right now because i typed out the following mail and then pressed the 'refresh' button by accident so i lost everything. sigh. anyway, i realised that i didnt really say anything during discussion time during cell last friday, but there were some things that came to mind after spending time in bed with chris chia and also during sunday service that i thought id share:
> > About interceding, my reply (or at least the only one i could think of) is that we intercede because the Bible tells us to. It was one of the verses that we read out at the start of cell (Ephesians 6:18, which is apparently our memory verse for this week). It might sound like a cop-out to give an answer like this, but at the same time, it's also the most basic and fundamental answer one can give (i admit i didn't notice whether this got mentioned during discussion time coz i wasn't really paying attention; ironically, i was looking through my Bible for answers). We follow what the Bible says out of our love for God and so that we may express love to others, and as Chris Chia said to me (i'm paraphrasing), it's best to adopt a child-like faith when it comes to doing what the Bible says.> >
As for the matter of whether our prayers have an effect on events and their outcomes, i think that a large part of this depends on one's personal conviction regarding the matter. For me, i feel that prayer does have an effect on outcomes, in part because i desire them to. The problem with our discussion was that we focussed on a very linear progression of events, generally divided into two schools of thought which, very simplistically speaking, are: 1) that we pray because we believe it has an influence on events, and (2) that even though we believe events and their outcomes are set in stone, it is only human to desire that events turn out in a certain way, and so our prayers are an expression of this desire. The problem with thinking in either way is that both are based on the concept of time.> >
God has the luxury of being able to grasp the concepts of time and non-time, so to speak. I would have liked to give an example to illustrate this point, but it's kinda hard to. The closest i can get is the example of "Schrodinger's Cat", which even then isn't that good an illustration. I don't want to risk getting too confusing so i could attempt to explain this in person instead.> >
But what i'm really trying to say is that for us to conclusively decide the effects of prayer and whether they affect the outcomes of events is impossible because we are only human, and cannot understand what all of God's plans are. Whether our prayers affect outcomes or not shouldn't be our main concern (like the saying goes, "In faith we pray..." i donno what the rest of the saying is). There are definitely verses that suggest prayers do have an effect (e.g. James 5:16-18, Matthew 7:7), but to see the promises in these verses as your basis/motivation for praying shouldn't be the case. If prayers always had an effect, then people wouldn't keep saying that God's answer to prayers is either 'yes', 'no' or 'maybe'; the answer would always be 'yes' (once again, this is a very simplistic way of looking at things -- refer to James 4:3 as well as your own common sense).
hmm maybe it's not such a bad thing that i didnt manage to think of all this during discussion time. i'm not going to suggest what our motivation for praying should be or why we should even pray at all because different people have different styles of and reasons for praying, and im sure that a lot of us definitely pray with faith as our basis (with the hope that our prayers have an effect on events being a by-product of this faith). plus my brain's kinda tired, especially with having had to type all this out twice. anyway, you might want to refer to the following link:
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/190/story_19034_1.html
as well as the other featured articles that are listed at the end of the interview for some perspectives on prayer, and also:
http://www.beliefnet.com/boards/message_list.asp?pageID=1&discussionID=581923&messages_per_page=4
which is a forum that features a person who became greatly disillusioned with the concept of prayer. as far as his/her question on predestination and free will goes, it coincides with my thought earlier on that God enjoys the benefit of understanding time and non-time, and so i shall be intrusive and say that i think predestination and free will can co-exist
anyway, have a good week ahead. cheryl, i can now personally relate to your analogy of speaking to someone for 3hours, although it's not really something id like to repeat anytime soon
-john
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 8:49:21 PM
RE: my 2cents worth for cg discussion on 16/11/07
hi cg, i thought i should say something, since well, i was part of the 'heated discussion' tt u all described.
i don't enjoy being in such discussions and sometimes, when dragged out, they can be a waste of everybody's time;
but i felt tt there was a need to this time because i felt that it was something that needed to be ironed out. sorry about it.
like kash said, thanks john and ian for sending such long emails; not very used to it, but they're much appreciated. see you all on fri.
blessings,jessica.
From: itadakimasu27@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: my 2cents worth for cg discussion on 16/11/07
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:10:49 +0000
HELLO guys, well i agree with mostly what is said. Ian and thanks for the case study.Especially poignant to me.My dad always asks me:You Chrisitians believe in your God right?But if you are sick,will God cure you?Will He send medicine or money from heaven?OR he says" Christians are not any better people--they are just as self-centered. When they pray they pray for themselves,they don't pray for God." (though praying FOR God is an ironic thought)
To these I haven't found the answers,I cower away and just keep praying for him in my own time.
In response to the debate at hand,I would say whether prayer changes things or not, was never an important question for me.I still pray because God is really like a friend,an intimate other to me and I cannot help but tell Him all my hopes and desires,ask Him about my life and future,about friends that I care for(intercession).I must say Im a dangerously Spirit-led person,lacking in knowledge or theology which i will try to brush up on in the near future.
My question to this debate is DESIRES.Because desires are the things which take faith to pray for.So what does it mean to be surrendered to the Lord?Does it mean that we do not pray for desires because we are surrendered and we trust in the plans that God have for us,to prosper us and not to harm us?How can we distinguish a desire that God puts on our heart?Are out hopes and dreams desires that God puts on our heart that He seriously intends for us to pursue? can/will He crush them along the way?When do we stop praying for something and start surrendering,at which point do we let it go or do we see it as a test of faith to pray even harder?
Sorry I have to do this but let's take "FACING THE GIANTS" for example,a mini case-study,hopefully everyone can relate to:
Coach had a bad time with his job.Wasnt one bad thing that came along the way,but many,logically directing him away from the job.How does he know it is not God signallinghim to change jobs,because when windows of opportunities are closed,it could be God directing you elsewhere.If took it in stride,had an accepting attitude to things under the guise of "surrendering to God's will"(the way things turn out, God is just not leading me there), then he very well would have quit the job prematurely.
But he took these things that were against him as a challenge of faith, bashing through the odds with God.He desired to coach the team to victory a lot:perhaps a God-given desire.
So is it true that if you have a strong desire at heart,a hope, a dream, it must be from God and you pursue it relentlessly as a faith journey?or is hope for miracles something that is strictly to be kept within movies?Or perhaps is there a time that comes where we weigh out the opportunity costs and surrender "God,I want this a lot but maybe it's not what You have in mind for me afterall."
My two cents worth is that: in prayer we must DARE TO.It is growing in courage in asking boldly from God,not like you are his boss,but like a son asking his father for candy,acknowledging Hissovereignity in it all,yet asking.It is true that there is a bigger picture that we cannot see,we wont know how God fits in all the pieces,because we are ultimately only a small piece ourselves. we've I'm sure we've discovered new things when we walk unexpected paths that weren't our original desires but God's will.
Then should we then back down,give it all up and float as fate or just make logical decisions according to tangible outcomes that God has allowed to happen?Life might be easier that way but I believe that praying against the odds and asking for what is not humanly possible,is quite the essence of faith.of course we are not talking about the "God let me strike toto tomorrow" kind of miracles here.
A sense of expectancy and believing it is possible,guides one's hand,though it is God who paves the way and gives us hope.Part of prayer is asking for peace to accept what we can't change,but that shouldn't stop us from asking from God boldly the next time round(as long as the request is Godly.)Ultimately I believe prayer really trains a man to look above himself and look to God for a miracle.Hey I know we're 20 and all,but isnt part of faith, still, about miracles?
It is also a growth journey of overcoming your faithlessness:But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.-James 1:6For if we ONLY ask for what is foreseable and humanly possible, what then are we saying about our trust in God?
A man shouldnt be stubborn but he should be of conviction and faith.(sounds good but the line is really quite thin and hard to draw)
Another way to look at prayer is not whether it changes things or not, but the value it brings to our spiritual lives and our relationship with God.
Sometimes I think CG discussion gets hindered by words.We all have our views I believe,but being spiritual matters,these are complex and hard to put into words.I have a lot of trouble finding the right words,I dont think Im a very good communicator at all.In this sense,writing helps better,gives time to better express.
Keep this alive guys.ian and john,lotsa valuable stuff in your writing! to the rest, God bless for your exams yall.dont worry,they're really quite a small part in life.:) ,just a really small but impt part.
:)kash
From: rejuvenate03@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: my 2cents worth for cg discussion on 16/11/07
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:56:47 +0000
heh i'm in the midst of doing some silly differentiation stuff and guess i prob wont do anything n forget abt this if i dont reply now..so short one just in response to the first part..
well of course when the grp's too big, not everyone gets to share and some dominate the discussion. but i'd say that oppportunities are given to everyone to speak or at least most of the time when i facilitate, i try to ask everyone at least once. then its up to whether the person wants to share coz of coz i do believe even though they may appear quiet, they have opinions to share which i feel is a good time n place to be encouraged!
with regards to intense discussion, well diff pple have diff views abt it..some love it. they think it helps us to stimulate our knowledge of God and in some way unite us more through 'rubbing shoulders' but having said that, some dont like it. they see the tension. feel uncomfortable abt it n see it as tension n unhealthy for CG. so there must be a balance i wld say.
and also CG time besides a time for discussion about issues, the bible which is what we're doing - great!, is also a time for us to care for one another. i wld say btw growing in the knowledge of God as a CG and caring for ppl, caring for someone who might be gg through some things affecting him or her overrides our time to discuss and learn from one another in terms of understanding the Word tog. that is why small grp time is impt.
i think praying more as a CG is impt. and we need to invest more time in that. i mean we got so much talking abt prayer and how it moves God's heart and all right, so all the more shldnt we be praying more esp as a CG. together we pray, we seek, we commit events, ppl unto God, together we see God's answers to our prayers, we see His glory and sovereignity and that He in turn blesses us coz we're stronger in unity in Him :)
some, including me saw that Fri when we spent considerably more time praying for one another as q a huge growth for our cg. just seeing how we show concern for one another, praying and committing one another to the Lord is really cool.
so yea got to balance and its good that we have ppl who hv diff perspectives so it keeps things more balanced, if u know what i mean...haha coz i dont really know what i'm talking abt now..back to differentiation and integration!
love, chia ying
From: the_invisible_mirage@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: my 2cents worth for cg discussion on 16/11/07
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 23:32:08 +0800
Good man.
i kinda felt that we glossed over this again, as we tend to do during cg. but here and now is a better time to discuss it, eh.
firstly, this appeal is not an original one, but let me echo the sentiments of others here, in an encouragement for us not to get too fixated on a topic, such that we take away the opportunity for others to speak as well. you know what i'm getting at here lah... if we're to grow, then we have to hear from everyone. it's not that the people who are quiet are un-opinionated on the subject, they're just waiting their turn.
but let's have good discussions as well. think carefully about what we have that adds to the discussion, and so to speak, pick your spots. sadly, cg discussion isn't buddy buddy time; our three hours has to be carefully protected so that everyone's in on the program. personally, i wish that we'd not be afraid of having intense discussions, and also that we'd take out a little time from announcements, prayer for events, etc. =P, to extend a discussion that is Spirit-led and that a few people would find crucial to their Christian approach. although i more than understand that sometimes we just have to move on and the post-discussion stuff is important too.
ok. i generally dislike using case examples to prove anything, it feels too much like GP, and GP is bullshit. but here's an interesting one. this is taken from the bestseller, 'The God Delusion' by Richard Dawkins, an atheist biologist. this is dangerous literature.
'An amusing, if rather pathetic, case study in miracles is the Great Prayer Experiment: does praying for patients help them recover? ... Francis Galton was the first to analyse scientifically ... he noted that ... in Britain ... entire congregations prayed ... for the health of the royal family. Shouldn't they, therefore, be unusually fit? ... Galton ... found no statistical difference. His intention may have been satirical, as also when he prayed over randomized plots of land to see if the plants would grow any faster (they didn't.)
More recently, the physicist Russell Stannard (one of Britain's three well-known religious scientists) ... an initiative ... to test experimentally the proposition that praying for sick patients improves their health.
... care was taken to tell them (the people praying) only the first name and initial letter of the surname (of patients being prayed for. but the patients didn't know if they were being prayed for or not.) Apparently that would be enough to enable God to pinpoint the right hospital bed.
... the idea of doing such experiments is open to a generous measure of ridicule, and the project duly received it...
... a Dr. Benson and his team monitored 1,802 patients at six hospitals, all of whom received coronary bypass surgery... divided into three groups, Group 1 received prayers and didn't know it, Group 2 ... received no prayers and didn't know it... Group 3 received prayers and did know it.
... they (the praying people) were told to (pray) ... "for a successful surgery with quick, healthy recovery and no complications." The results, reported in the American Heart Journal of April 2006, were clear-cut. There was no difference between those patients who were prayed for and those who were not... There was a difference between those who knew they had been prayed for and those who did not know one way or the other; but it went in the wrong direction. Those who knew they had been the beneficiaries of prayer suffered significantly more complications that those who did not.
... it was no surprise that this study was opposed by theologians... the Oxford theologian Richard Swinburne ... objected to it on the grounds that God answers prayers only if they are offered up for good reasons.
... Needless to say, the negative results of the experiment will not shake the faithful. Bob Barth, the spiritual director of the Missouri prayer ministry which supplied some of the experimental prayers, said: "A person of faith would say that this study is interesting, but we've been praying for a long time and we've seem prayer work, we know it works, and the research on prayer and spirituality is just getting started." Yeah, right: we know from our faith that prayer works, so if evidence fails to show it we'll just soldier on until finally we get the result we want.'
okay. let's be sensible and ignore this case. that was just an interesting aside.
if everyone were to speak personally, we can all surely say that we believe prayer to God changes things, for the Bible truth that God responds to faith, and God listens to prayer. if not, i don't see how we can be Christian. but what changes? logic dictates that God knows all, time, non-time, concepts built for man that do not apply to God. logic dictates that God already knows He's going to do what, so He doesn't ever have to 'change His mind.' so because God knows everything that ever happens, nothing we say or do can change what is going to happen by His will (everything, actually.) expanding on that, no prayer we have can really persuade God to do anything else/ convince Him of the necessitude of having something happen, that He knows is already going to happen. Doesn't it mean that the personal choices we make as Christians are pointless as God already knows if we ultimately chose to go to heaven or to hell? of course not. but i wouldn't tell you why.
so maybe we pray for things that are less clear cut, so that we can claim subjective victories in things that happen. for example, we pray that the bus comes, we pray that people will be saved at a certain event, we pray that God will take care of us tomorrow. we pray that God will speak to us some way or other. we pray for things in the future, we remind ourselves that we cannot demand of God, that we cannot set a time for these things to happen, we cannot be disappointed when prayer fails now. these are simple steps to faith-building, faith-perpetuating, safe, prayers. lo and behold, prayer works.
on the other hand, we also say that prayer opens and aligns our hearts and our minds to the will of God, it brings us to God's heart, it uplifts us, it gives us peace, it gives us humility, it gives us wisdom. it encourages brothers and sisters in Christ to know they are being prayed for, it brings congregations together in fellowship under the wise ministrations of a pastor. prayer in a group allows us to share and sympathise with the perspectives of other believers. prayer keeps us on our toes, we acknowledge our sins before God when we pray, we pray for others before ourselves, we check our consciences before we pray for blessings. we give praise to God in prayer for things that work well, in ways that we can and cannot imagine. we look at people who pray, and they seem externally to be happier, more contented and more spiritually complete. finally, we know that God desires our worship and our relationship with Him, and He alone knows what pleases Him, and He alone knows why He wants us to pray to Him. so all this leads us to believe in prayer.
these are all well and good, but it takes a personal faith to believe in prayer. a personal faith that is self-convinced, and as such, undeniable. let me go on to say personally that i am a firm believer that prayer changes things. God responds to faithful prayer. imagine if tomorrow He said that he wanted to rain fire and brimstone on Singapore. would you not step up and say, 'Lord, if there are five good men in Singapore, would You not spare Singapore?' or would you stand by and think, 'it's up to you, Lord. You know best. You always decide what happens.' i have also had amazing things happen to me after a prayer, though not necessarily after qt. some things have happened that i thought i would be truly blessed to have happen to me, and i am thankful to God that they have happened, and i am also thankful that i can pray to Him for them. we are blessed if God 'visits' us emotionally when we seek Him, and we should not consider a lack of emotional confirmation or circumstantial evidence as the non-presence or uncaring side of God. but why not? because we fail to understand a lot of things. because God works in mysterious ways. non-answers, essentially, but by these too there can be answers.
we can be logical as much as we like. but there are answers in faith that defy logic. and logic cannot defy faith because logic fails us.
well haha that's that. respond respond respond! but of course study hard first.
ian
> From: johnnyworm007@hotmail.com>
Subject: my 2cents worth for cg discussion on 16/11/07>
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:54:08 +0800> > >
hello everybody,> >
im very upset right now because i typed out the following mail and then pressed the 'refresh' button by accident so i lost everything. sigh. anyway, i realised that i didnt really say anything during discussion time during cell last friday, but there were some things that came to mind after spending time in bed with chris chia and also during sunday service that i thought id share:
> > About interceding, my reply (or at least the only one i could think of) is that we intercede because the Bible tells us to. It was one of the verses that we read out at the start of cell (Ephesians 6:18, which is apparently our memory verse for this week). It might sound like a cop-out to give an answer like this, but at the same time, it's also the most basic and fundamental answer one can give (i admit i didn't notice whether this got mentioned during discussion time coz i wasn't really paying attention; ironically, i was looking through my Bible for answers). We follow what the Bible says out of our love for God and so that we may express love to others, and as Chris Chia said to me (i'm paraphrasing), it's best to adopt a child-like faith when it comes to doing what the Bible says.> >
As for the matter of whether our prayers have an effect on events and their outcomes, i think that a large part of this depends on one's personal conviction regarding the matter. For me, i feel that prayer does have an effect on outcomes, in part because i desire them to. The problem with our discussion was that we focussed on a very linear progression of events, generally divided into two schools of thought which, very simplistically speaking, are: 1) that we pray because we believe it has an influence on events, and (2) that even though we believe events and their outcomes are set in stone, it is only human to desire that events turn out in a certain way, and so our prayers are an expression of this desire. The problem with thinking in either way is that both are based on the concept of time.> >
God has the luxury of being able to grasp the concepts of time and non-time, so to speak. I would have liked to give an example to illustrate this point, but it's kinda hard to. The closest i can get is the example of "Schrodinger's Cat", which even then isn't that good an illustration. I don't want to risk getting too confusing so i could attempt to explain this in person instead.> >
But what i'm really trying to say is that for us to conclusively decide the effects of prayer and whether they affect the outcomes of events is impossible because we are only human, and cannot understand what all of God's plans are. Whether our prayers affect outcomes or not shouldn't be our main concern (like the saying goes, "In faith we pray..." i donno what the rest of the saying is). There are definitely verses that suggest prayers do have an effect (e.g. James 5:16-18, Matthew 7:7), but to see the promises in these verses as your basis/motivation for praying shouldn't be the case. If prayers always had an effect, then people wouldn't keep saying that God's answer to prayers is either 'yes', 'no' or 'maybe'; the answer would always be 'yes' (once again, this is a very simplistic way of looking at things -- refer to James 4:3 as well as your own common sense).
hmm maybe it's not such a bad thing that i didnt manage to think of all this during discussion time. i'm not going to suggest what our motivation for praying should be or why we should even pray at all because different people have different styles of and reasons for praying, and im sure that a lot of us definitely pray with faith as our basis (with the hope that our prayers have an effect on events being a by-product of this faith). plus my brain's kinda tired, especially with having had to type all this out twice. anyway, you might want to refer to the following link:
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/190/story_19034_1.html
as well as the other featured articles that are listed at the end of the interview for some perspectives on prayer, and also:
http://www.beliefnet.com/boards/message_list.asp?pageID=1&discussionID=581923&messages_per_page=4
which is a forum that features a person who became greatly disillusioned with the concept of prayer. as far as his/her question on predestination and free will goes, it coincides with my thought earlier on that God enjoys the benefit of understanding time and non-time, and so i shall be intrusive and say that i think predestination and free will can co-exist
anyway, have a good week ahead. cheryl, i can now personally relate to your analogy of speaking to someone for 3hours, although it's not really something id like to repeat anytime soon
-john
Friday, January 25, 2008
the incredulity of saint thomas
This painting is entitled "The Incredulity of Saint Thomas" by Baroque artist, Caravaggio.It illustrates the famous doubting Thomas,putting his finger into Christ's wounds before he would believe that it is the very same man that was crucified and rose again.
John 20:25-29
But he (Thomas) said to them, "Unless I put my finger where his nails were,and put my hand into his side,I will not believe it."....
...Then Jesus said to Thomas "Put your finger here,see my hands.Reach out your hand and put it into my side.Stop doubting and believe."
Thomas said to him, "My Lord,my God!"
Then Jesus told him, " Because you have seen me,you have believed,blessed are those who have not seen but have yet believed."
I do wish at times,the answers to large and complex questions can be as lucid as touching Jesus' wounds,but walking by faith embodies a beauty and fragility which is far more precious.
--kash
RE: i'm a Christian. Ask me why!
yeah. you're right. no one really stops and asks themselves why they believe in Jesus. either they're living the faith day by day, or they don't care, day by day. either way, they get through, until someone asks them to think about it all over again. and then there's a pause, a slight dry-mouthed hesitation, and then it's called a crisis. haha.
it's not that believers don't know why they're believers, or find it difficult to remember why they believe or when they first started. it's just that belief is an intangible thing, it exists beyond explanation, substantiation or evidential description, because these by definition can cause belief in the sound and reasonable mind of any person. now if you tried to pass on your personal beliefs to someone else in much the same way as you'd pass a piece of knowledge, you'd certainly try to do so by explaining in terms of derivatives and principles, or by experiment and analysis. logic can certainly be convincing if applied reasonably and epistemologically. however, it is impossible to do so for things that aren't based on rules, laws or undeniable facts. personal and self-convinced, as belief, faith and spiritual truths are, they exist beyond logic and sensibility, and hence also the subsequent acts of elucidation and explanatory enunciation.
and hence you're essentially trying to reach out and circumscribe a slippery and elusive mental image, in terms of being able to do so in a manner that can coax a similar belief in someone who's listening to such an explanation.
that's why we're called believers, not know-ers, even though we're obviously the latter.
saying, "i'm a Christian. Ask me why!" has the metaphysical equivalence of saying, " I'm a post-modernist! Ask me why!" try answering that. "well, i'm a po-mo because i think that the act of defining something gives it restrictions. for example, calling a person a woman confines her to... only the female things in the world." haha! can you imagine laughing in the face of someone like that? in the same way, religion, taken objectively, is akin to a rather more 'sacred' preference of things, whether in terms of lifestyle, beliefs, values, hopes, views, etc.
perhaps we should have the mentality in our heads that although we know exactly what we hold on to, and what we want to share to someone else (all of kb's points here, in your personal favourite blend), to actually physically pass them on is somewhat of a fallacy.
1st Corinthians 1:18, 22-24: "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."; "Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God."
so in effect, we open ourselves to derision and scorn, we make ourselves vulnerable and assailable, by exposing and disclosing our closest held and most treasured beliefs, remembering how it was written that this is exactly what is supposed to happen.
2nd Corinthians 12:9b: "Therefore i will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me."
so, my dear brothers and sisters in Christ, let us be all the more encouraged to share, personal testimonies notwithstanding. i remember Pastor Dave saying that personal testimony is all the more powerful because it is irrefutable. well, technically speaking, we know that it is, but we certainly won't be swayed. haha.
honker (but please, call me ian. it's freaky to be called honker)
it's not that believers don't know why they're believers, or find it difficult to remember why they believe or when they first started. it's just that belief is an intangible thing, it exists beyond explanation, substantiation or evidential description, because these by definition can cause belief in the sound and reasonable mind of any person. now if you tried to pass on your personal beliefs to someone else in much the same way as you'd pass a piece of knowledge, you'd certainly try to do so by explaining in terms of derivatives and principles, or by experiment and analysis. logic can certainly be convincing if applied reasonably and epistemologically. however, it is impossible to do so for things that aren't based on rules, laws or undeniable facts. personal and self-convinced, as belief, faith and spiritual truths are, they exist beyond logic and sensibility, and hence also the subsequent acts of elucidation and explanatory enunciation.
and hence you're essentially trying to reach out and circumscribe a slippery and elusive mental image, in terms of being able to do so in a manner that can coax a similar belief in someone who's listening to such an explanation.
that's why we're called believers, not know-ers, even though we're obviously the latter.
saying, "i'm a Christian. Ask me why!" has the metaphysical equivalence of saying, " I'm a post-modernist! Ask me why!" try answering that. "well, i'm a po-mo because i think that the act of defining something gives it restrictions. for example, calling a person a woman confines her to... only the female things in the world." haha! can you imagine laughing in the face of someone like that? in the same way, religion, taken objectively, is akin to a rather more 'sacred' preference of things, whether in terms of lifestyle, beliefs, values, hopes, views, etc.
perhaps we should have the mentality in our heads that although we know exactly what we hold on to, and what we want to share to someone else (all of kb's points here, in your personal favourite blend), to actually physically pass them on is somewhat of a fallacy.
1st Corinthians 1:18, 22-24: "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."; "Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God."
so in effect, we open ourselves to derision and scorn, we make ourselves vulnerable and assailable, by exposing and disclosing our closest held and most treasured beliefs, remembering how it was written that this is exactly what is supposed to happen.
2nd Corinthians 12:9b: "Therefore i will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me."
so, my dear brothers and sisters in Christ, let us be all the more encouraged to share, personal testimonies notwithstanding. i remember Pastor Dave saying that personal testimony is all the more powerful because it is irrefutable. well, technically speaking, we know that it is, but we certainly won't be swayed. haha.
honker (but please, call me ian. it's freaky to be called honker)
Thursday, January 24, 2008
hellooo!!
Hey guys, it's the time of the year when im MIA again. So here's a little update on how im doing! Hope you guys miss me? I know Sarah doesn't after reading her email saying im only 0.01%. So hurt you know! Haha. I'm trying my best to miss you all but i keep getting distracted by the shiok life here. Nahh just kidding, i miss you all and don't worry i'll bring krispy kremes back with me. any other requests? i'll consider it on a case by case basis. haha. (Chiaying i cannot find your pine nuts, you want macademia nuts?)
If you guys are wondering what i've been up to, i've been flying about 1 flight every week, to get back my flying sense. It's like if you dont drive a manual car for a long time and you suddenly start, you'll most likely stall. But luckily there arent gears in the plane. so it's been great so far. haha. when im not flying i'll be working on some project for the instructors here. I end work everyday around 3pm and after that it's just my own free time. Aniwae here are some pics for you guys. I'll be posting more on facebook. haha
The shit hot piece of machinery i want to fly
The pok plane i actually fly
Aniwae it's super relaxed here. i really dunno how im going to adjust back to life in Singapore. It's sooo sooo much better than when i last came here cuz im not being assessed when flying. So flying is super enjoyable! stress free! yup aniwae i've flown the 5 flights that i came here to fly and now im just waiting to go back. Oh and my flight has been confirmed- reaching SG next wed at night. Till then, take care and God bless!
Cheers,
Shaun
If you guys are wondering what i've been up to, i've been flying about 1 flight every week, to get back my flying sense. It's like if you dont drive a manual car for a long time and you suddenly start, you'll most likely stall. But luckily there arent gears in the plane. so it's been great so far. haha. when im not flying i'll be working on some project for the instructors here. I end work everyday around 3pm and after that it's just my own free time. Aniwae here are some pics for you guys. I'll be posting more on facebook. haha
The shit hot piece of machinery i want to fly
The pok plane i actually flyAniwae it's super relaxed here. i really dunno how im going to adjust back to life in Singapore. It's sooo sooo much better than when i last came here cuz im not being assessed when flying. So flying is super enjoyable! stress free! yup aniwae i've flown the 5 flights that i came here to fly and now im just waiting to go back. Oh and my flight has been confirmed- reaching SG next wed at night. Till then, take care and God bless!
Cheers,
Shaun
Wednesday, January 23, 2008
I'm a Christian. Ask me why!
Have you ever asked yourself why you believe in Jesus?
I know what you’re thinking... You’re thinking, “How could we NOT, right? I mean he – GOD - DIED so we could live, right?” Right. But be honest. Why do YOU believe? It could be because:
1. I believe that He is an all-powerful, benevolent creator and therefore is deserving of our worship.
2. I believe that God loves all of us unconditionally, as demonstrated by Jesus Christ’s sacrifice. This act of love can only be repaid with our undying devotion.
3. Christianity makes the most sense to me. Other religions have fundamental flaws in logic (eg. The idea of god taking the shape of an elephant, jackal or wolf seems ludicrous, the improbability of enlightenment being attained through meditation, etc).
4. I have actually encountered God, thus proving (at least to me) that He is real and thus should be worshipped.
Or is it some other reason?
I’m writing this entry because I wanted to start a discussion about the reason behind our choice. I also wanted to get people to think about it, if they never have before. I think loads of people don’t give much thought to why they believe in God. It’s usually more about what I can do for God or what He can do for me. I think it’s important to know why we believe in something in order for it to have any meaning at all. If not, it’s just blind faith, which is ok at the start, but doesn’t last.
I believe that knowing this reason will strengthen your personal testimony and your ability to share with others and bring them to Christ as well. If someone asks you why you believe in Jesus, it’s a great opportunity to show them how strong you are in your faith and how aware you are of what you believe in. Hopefully, you won’t be at a loss for words. ;)
I believe that the rationale behind Christianity’s popularity is the fact that it’s not so much a religion as it is a relationship. That means it’s different for everyone. Your reason is unique. It’s between you and God. There could be a thousand reasons. 2.2 billion reasons (sorry, no statistical substantiation here. lol).
Care to share what yours is? You could write a comment or a related entry =)
I know what you’re thinking... You’re thinking, “How could we NOT, right? I mean he – GOD - DIED so we could live, right?” Right. But be honest. Why do YOU believe? It could be because:
1. I believe that He is an all-powerful, benevolent creator and therefore is deserving of our worship.
2. I believe that God loves all of us unconditionally, as demonstrated by Jesus Christ’s sacrifice. This act of love can only be repaid with our undying devotion.
3. Christianity makes the most sense to me. Other religions have fundamental flaws in logic (eg. The idea of god taking the shape of an elephant, jackal or wolf seems ludicrous, the improbability of enlightenment being attained through meditation, etc).
4. I have actually encountered God, thus proving (at least to me) that He is real and thus should be worshipped.
Or is it some other reason?
I’m writing this entry because I wanted to start a discussion about the reason behind our choice. I also wanted to get people to think about it, if they never have before. I think loads of people don’t give much thought to why they believe in God. It’s usually more about what I can do for God or what He can do for me. I think it’s important to know why we believe in something in order for it to have any meaning at all. If not, it’s just blind faith, which is ok at the start, but doesn’t last.
I believe that knowing this reason will strengthen your personal testimony and your ability to share with others and bring them to Christ as well. If someone asks you why you believe in Jesus, it’s a great opportunity to show them how strong you are in your faith and how aware you are of what you believe in. Hopefully, you won’t be at a loss for words. ;)
I believe that the rationale behind Christianity’s popularity is the fact that it’s not so much a religion as it is a relationship. That means it’s different for everyone. Your reason is unique. It’s between you and God. There could be a thousand reasons. 2.2 billion reasons (sorry, no statistical substantiation here. lol).
Care to share what yours is? You could write a comment or a related entry =)
Tuesday, January 22, 2008
I’m 98% packed and 95% ready to go.
Beh msged me yesterday morning and asked me what I’ll miss when I’m gone. I told him it’d be the comfort and familiarity in general of life in Singapore. It was just something I thought of at that moment. But as I thought about it more and more through the day, I realized that its no more going to be the familiar ceiling I wake up to each morning, or the familiar faces I meet each week.
I’ll only be able to figure out how exactly to get to my university from the airport when I’m there. And that is step 1. No t knowing what to expect behind the next turn makes me kind of insecure. But I guess that’s why its going to be exciting. Haha. I’m just thankful there is a God watching over me, who knows what my next step will be, who is in control of it all.
Anyway, I’m sure six months will pass by very quickly and soon I’ll be back to see army boys entering uni and uni girls, erm, still stuck in uni. But in the meantime if you’d like to contact me and ask if I’ve met cristiano ronaldo and gang, my Singapore hp line will still be running so you could sms me. It’ll probably cost you 15cents if I got it right, though there are also other FREE options, such as through good old email, msn, or if you have a webcam and would like to check out my matching pipes, you could try skype. I’m still resisting facebook FYI. hahaha
Do keep reminding me of home and everything else I’m missing, like BAK KWA... and the cell, of course. :(
Beh msged me yesterday morning and asked me what I’ll miss when I’m gone. I told him it’d be the comfort and familiarity in general of life in Singapore. It was just something I thought of at that moment. But as I thought about it more and more through the day, I realized that its no more going to be the familiar ceiling I wake up to each morning, or the familiar faces I meet each week.
I’ll only be able to figure out how exactly to get to my university from the airport when I’m there. And that is step 1. No t knowing what to expect behind the next turn makes me kind of insecure. But I guess that’s why its going to be exciting. Haha. I’m just thankful there is a God watching over me, who knows what my next step will be, who is in control of it all.
Anyway, I’m sure six months will pass by very quickly and soon I’ll be back to see army boys entering uni and uni girls, erm, still stuck in uni. But in the meantime if you’d like to contact me and ask if I’ve met cristiano ronaldo and gang, my Singapore hp line will still be running so you could sms me. It’ll probably cost you 15cents if I got it right, though there are also other FREE options, such as through good old email, msn, or if you have a webcam and would like to check out my matching pipes, you could try skype. I’m still resisting facebook FYI. hahaha
Do keep reminding me of home and everything else I’m missing, like BAK KWA... and the cell, of course. :(
Monday, January 21, 2008
just another random example of what this blog is for...
hi all. good monday morning to you.
i was reading Time online and i got to this article.
The Girl Gap: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1704654-1,00.html
it's about the education in Afghanistan for girls, and culture. i must admit to becoming a bit teary-eyed when i read the part about the shooting of schoolgirls.
alright peace out.
i was reading Time online and i got to this article.
The Girl Gap: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1704654-1,00.html
it's about the education in Afghanistan for girls, and culture. i must admit to becoming a bit teary-eyed when i read the part about the shooting of schoolgirls.
alright peace out.
Sunday, January 20, 2008
breakthroughs
today was certainly one of the better sundays in church that i recall in recent history. it had, everything. well, enough of everything, anyway.
i set the alarm at 745 to get up today for first service. now i still must admit to flip-flopping a lot on which service i go for, chiefly for the fact that most of our cg people do so as well, and service is quite boring without people to talk to in the row. so it's usually that we'd sorta poll on friday nights and then settle on first or second. there's even so many agendas involved just for something like choosing which service to go to. haha. that's amusing.
anyway, having managed to be there on time, i talked to edwin and andrew wong abit. also auntie wong. haha. i'm very good with older women, frankly. it's really, really easy, too. the most important thing is to be polite, and to be funny. older women are very very easy to charm. but it's sort of a compliment as well that you talk to them properly, like a gentleman, and charmingly. i don't really know why guys complain about mothers-in-law. haha unless of course you're so charming that they don't trust you with their daughter. which is... fair enough.
so anyway i went in with edwin, and i was telling him that like, i was waiting for people my age. and i mentioned that just as i wasn't quite his height, he wasn't quite my age. haha. (he'll never be my age. get it?) so anyway chia was there and i went to sit there.
i felt like sleeping through the sermon but there was ony of the littler guys sitting next to me so i thought i'd better not. and i went through the motions of taking notes, which is exceptional. i don't like to take notes for sermon outlines because i'd rather listen, pay attention and remember. and the sermon outlines are very non-specific so it's hard to remember the context of the speaker, or you'd have to refer to the verses, and besides i don't ever refer to the notes. it's in the bible, anyway, right? a sermon is just an interpretation and a reminder, if you look at it that way. unless it's something that nobody's ever said before, and makes all sorts of Spiritual sense, it's just gonna be like writing down a reminder. yeah.
so during the announcements they say the global missions watch will feature a doctor working in china, and i thought hey that's cool. so i went with chia and joanne and john to the thing. okay wait. for those of us who aren't aware (c'mon guys), global missions watch is this sorta talk run by Pastor Alvin and crew who kinda give the church updates on missions happenings, and the recent m.o.b., and so on. so we're sitting there listening to stuff and then we get a handout with the usual sort of lists of things that missionaries update the church about, what they're thankful for, need prayer for, etc. and then, we got to pray for them, which was a bit of a surprise to me. well, as first times go. anyway, john wanted us to pray together, as we were supposed to, to which i replied that i had no feelings for this, and so he bravely prayed aloud for the both of us.
right. having finished that, we went back to listening to more stuff, oh no, wait, the room was separated to pray for different regions, and we had cambodia. once again, i was slightly apprehensive about praying in a group for something i hadn't really thought about, and had no real heart for. thankfully, (haha), we were broken up to our own people (jess jo chia john and i), and we started praying. and then i got to thinking about why i was always afraid to pray with people. and i thought, there's never a problem nowadays when i pray to God on my own, in fact it's great. so, what's up!
i struggled with this for quite a long time, to be honest. and in the long time that i've been dealing with this, i've come to quite a few conclusions, leading up to today's sorta breakthrough. haha. one is that when it's one audience, who is God, it's very easy to be honest, and to be humble, and to speak forthrightly, and to be random. when there're people listening, prayer becomes sort of an encouragement and/or warning to this second audience. and it's funny to say the same thing to two audiences who are different in so many ways, like for instance when talking about the problems you wanna pray about, it's so vastly different how much God understands your point of view and how much anybody else does. two is that i usually am sceptical or suspicious of people who pray aloud and pander more to the people listening, than as they would simply presenting their heart to God, and that scares me, to be honest. three, which struck me today, is that i make use of a lot of expressions and worded peculiarities in my accounting of things, especially when i want to describe the things that are close to my heart, and so my english becomes quite fanciful and pretty. i love to talk to God like that, because it's His gift to me, and He understands before i compose my thoughts and words. but i'm afraid that people listening might think i'm showing off, or whatever.
a useful verse for this is:
Matthew 6:5-8 "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men... But when you pray, go to your room and pray to your Father, who is unseen... And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him."
anyway, what i always do, (stupidly, wrongly), is to dumb down my english, but i'm not any good at it, and i can't pray well. haha. so today as i closed my eyes with the group i thought, oh whatever, at least these people have known me long enough and have suffered enough halting and uninspired spoken prayers from me, that they know i'm not the show off kind when praying. and i thought that God would always understand, and i thought that, whatever happens, i'm going to believe that the people listening would understand as well. and so it went well, better than i've ever remembered when praying aloud. also being able to speak from personal experience when i was in cambodia (and vietnam), i prayed that the people who were still getting to their feet from the oppression of their government (the economic policy of the communist government was what i was referring to, it was quite draconian, actually), the genocide, and these same people who were eking out a survival in their struggling economy, who had to care for their families, would be able to at least attain some level of living standard. and when they searched for the deeper things in life, that God would reveal himself to them, and there would be people to show them the way to Christ. the second thing i prayed for was that the people being reached out to and being saved in prison would be powerful, fearless testimones for Christ, because they would have little left to fear from life. Just like the apostles, and also like Paul.
right. that was a breakthrough, a small, important one. like the first turn of a closed jar of goopers. haha.
and then after that we had lunch and went home. and i got caught in the rain. but it was quite a nice experience to sit underneath a flyover while cars whizzed by, as the rain poured on. seriously, it's very peaceful. it's funny to find it there, too.
i sure hope we get through more stuff like this as a cg, or even part of it. i mean we all have different things we have hearts for, right. like for instance john and i have never even ever been conceivably interested in going for missions global watch right after first service. but we just went, for my being interested in the doc (who was really fantastic. quite, quite an inspiration. quite a hero), for john i dunno, and look what we ended up with. time together, sharing, hearts connecting, and so on.
we could try caring about what others care about. we could, really, we could. and then, we could invite them back to what we're interested in.
right that's all. work hard, study hard, love hard, and faith hard.
lot's of love,
ian :)
i set the alarm at 745 to get up today for first service. now i still must admit to flip-flopping a lot on which service i go for, chiefly for the fact that most of our cg people do so as well, and service is quite boring without people to talk to in the row. so it's usually that we'd sorta poll on friday nights and then settle on first or second. there's even so many agendas involved just for something like choosing which service to go to. haha. that's amusing.
anyway, having managed to be there on time, i talked to edwin and andrew wong abit. also auntie wong. haha. i'm very good with older women, frankly. it's really, really easy, too. the most important thing is to be polite, and to be funny. older women are very very easy to charm. but it's sort of a compliment as well that you talk to them properly, like a gentleman, and charmingly. i don't really know why guys complain about mothers-in-law. haha unless of course you're so charming that they don't trust you with their daughter. which is... fair enough.
so anyway i went in with edwin, and i was telling him that like, i was waiting for people my age. and i mentioned that just as i wasn't quite his height, he wasn't quite my age. haha. (he'll never be my age. get it?) so anyway chia was there and i went to sit there.
i felt like sleeping through the sermon but there was ony of the littler guys sitting next to me so i thought i'd better not. and i went through the motions of taking notes, which is exceptional. i don't like to take notes for sermon outlines because i'd rather listen, pay attention and remember. and the sermon outlines are very non-specific so it's hard to remember the context of the speaker, or you'd have to refer to the verses, and besides i don't ever refer to the notes. it's in the bible, anyway, right? a sermon is just an interpretation and a reminder, if you look at it that way. unless it's something that nobody's ever said before, and makes all sorts of Spiritual sense, it's just gonna be like writing down a reminder. yeah.
so during the announcements they say the global missions watch will feature a doctor working in china, and i thought hey that's cool. so i went with chia and joanne and john to the thing. okay wait. for those of us who aren't aware (c'mon guys), global missions watch is this sorta talk run by Pastor Alvin and crew who kinda give the church updates on missions happenings, and the recent m.o.b., and so on. so we're sitting there listening to stuff and then we get a handout with the usual sort of lists of things that missionaries update the church about, what they're thankful for, need prayer for, etc. and then, we got to pray for them, which was a bit of a surprise to me. well, as first times go. anyway, john wanted us to pray together, as we were supposed to, to which i replied that i had no feelings for this, and so he bravely prayed aloud for the both of us.
right. having finished that, we went back to listening to more stuff, oh no, wait, the room was separated to pray for different regions, and we had cambodia. once again, i was slightly apprehensive about praying in a group for something i hadn't really thought about, and had no real heart for. thankfully, (haha), we were broken up to our own people (jess jo chia john and i), and we started praying. and then i got to thinking about why i was always afraid to pray with people. and i thought, there's never a problem nowadays when i pray to God on my own, in fact it's great. so, what's up!
i struggled with this for quite a long time, to be honest. and in the long time that i've been dealing with this, i've come to quite a few conclusions, leading up to today's sorta breakthrough. haha. one is that when it's one audience, who is God, it's very easy to be honest, and to be humble, and to speak forthrightly, and to be random. when there're people listening, prayer becomes sort of an encouragement and/or warning to this second audience. and it's funny to say the same thing to two audiences who are different in so many ways, like for instance when talking about the problems you wanna pray about, it's so vastly different how much God understands your point of view and how much anybody else does. two is that i usually am sceptical or suspicious of people who pray aloud and pander more to the people listening, than as they would simply presenting their heart to God, and that scares me, to be honest. three, which struck me today, is that i make use of a lot of expressions and worded peculiarities in my accounting of things, especially when i want to describe the things that are close to my heart, and so my english becomes quite fanciful and pretty. i love to talk to God like that, because it's His gift to me, and He understands before i compose my thoughts and words. but i'm afraid that people listening might think i'm showing off, or whatever.
a useful verse for this is:
Matthew 6:5-8 "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men... But when you pray, go to your room and pray to your Father, who is unseen... And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him."
anyway, what i always do, (stupidly, wrongly), is to dumb down my english, but i'm not any good at it, and i can't pray well. haha. so today as i closed my eyes with the group i thought, oh whatever, at least these people have known me long enough and have suffered enough halting and uninspired spoken prayers from me, that they know i'm not the show off kind when praying. and i thought that God would always understand, and i thought that, whatever happens, i'm going to believe that the people listening would understand as well. and so it went well, better than i've ever remembered when praying aloud. also being able to speak from personal experience when i was in cambodia (and vietnam), i prayed that the people who were still getting to their feet from the oppression of their government (the economic policy of the communist government was what i was referring to, it was quite draconian, actually), the genocide, and these same people who were eking out a survival in their struggling economy, who had to care for their families, would be able to at least attain some level of living standard. and when they searched for the deeper things in life, that God would reveal himself to them, and there would be people to show them the way to Christ. the second thing i prayed for was that the people being reached out to and being saved in prison would be powerful, fearless testimones for Christ, because they would have little left to fear from life. Just like the apostles, and also like Paul.
right. that was a breakthrough, a small, important one. like the first turn of a closed jar of goopers. haha.
and then after that we had lunch and went home. and i got caught in the rain. but it was quite a nice experience to sit underneath a flyover while cars whizzed by, as the rain poured on. seriously, it's very peaceful. it's funny to find it there, too.
i sure hope we get through more stuff like this as a cg, or even part of it. i mean we all have different things we have hearts for, right. like for instance john and i have never even ever been conceivably interested in going for missions global watch right after first service. but we just went, for my being interested in the doc (who was really fantastic. quite, quite an inspiration. quite a hero), for john i dunno, and look what we ended up with. time together, sharing, hearts connecting, and so on.
we could try caring about what others care about. we could, really, we could. and then, we could invite them back to what we're interested in.
right that's all. work hard, study hard, love hard, and faith hard.
lot's of love,
ian :)
Thursday, January 17, 2008
woo. this place sure looks like it could use a little traffic. nuff' said! :P
okay. it's been five days since i told you guys about the idea of having a blog, and sent out the email to the twenty seven (omgoodness twenty seven really!?) people who do or have once belonged to our cg. the email was sent as an invitation, although obviously i wish it were more forcefully presented so that the responses would be that much quicker. but i also thought it would be important to stress how much of an effort something like this would certainly demand, and i thought you guys deserved not to have anything tossed into your laps. and this was certainly supposed to be more than just a random blog of a group of people, so the buildup to this, i would think, would certainly serve to cause people to reconsider happily volunteering to join up in this enterprise without having given it much thought.
anyway despite that, we've had a decent showing, and at least people have stepped up to become authors of this blog. of the rest, there have been the odd email or two in a postive response, without the actual taking up of the offer to write, which is of course, acceptable either way, and besides, it's early days yet. i've tried to talk to some less represented members of our cg on msn, and will continue to do so in the hopes that they will at least keep an eye on this blog. i must admit i am slightly puzzled by the turnout in general, but i will certainly follow up on this, be sure of it. :) oh and thanks to kash, for our first two posts! haha. i am working on something else at the moment, something also for our cg, which i will reveal when complete. in any case, if inspiration should strike, please, vandalise our blog! better than empty like it is now.
and now, because i admittedly attest to a certain lack of blogging inspiration, i have decided to post some of the earlier threads that we ran through in our emails. whereas this should be the prerogative of their original authors and composers, i have nonetheless taken the liberty of copying them onto this blog, at least in the attempt to trace the foundations of our online fellowship system (OFS). lol.
first, that of j.lo. way back, way back then.
On 8/27/06, J. Low <jono11287@gmail.com> wrote:
To Ian, Kim Pong, Chris and John,
whose faith lies in my God, our Lord Jesus Christ, to whom all honour and praise is due:
My dear brothers in Christ, I come to you with the deepest desire to start a small support group among the 5 of us after much procastination on my part.
I pray that we will share, encourage, and be humbled in this support group. My friends, it is not only because of the army of which why this is starting, but because of the
age phase which we are going through. It doesnt matter whether its the army or the poly, our main goal is to PRAY, SHARE and ENCOURAGE.
Due to our highly busy and extensive life, I believe E-MAIL and SMS are the best mediums to fulfill our Goal.
1. PRAY
This is YOUR responsibility. Enough said.
2. SHARE
Brothers in Christ, in this new dawn and age, many are not sharing freely and from their heart. It is my desire that WE will open up ourselves so that we
can be accountable to one another.
What to share:
Dudes, Im a guy too. Dont hold back your sharing, for i think like you too.
Sex(porn, Geylang, etc.), BGR, Girls
Vulgarities
Pride
Christian Walk
Evangelism
Army/Studies
Church
Bondages
Just some ideas for sharing :)
3. ENCOURAGE
Share with us what you learnt in QT, in school, in army, in life.
Share a verse or a testimony.
You know what I mean.
Brothers, I need to have all of your co-operation and comittment on this so that it makes me disciplined to keep this going and also that WE will all be lifted in Christ.
All it takes minimum is to check AND reply your email every weekend. (if you are home that is). Additional would be sms-ing one another during the week.
Guys, WHAT SAY YOU?
Yours dearly in Christ,
J Low :-D
and the next,
Dear Warriors in Christ,
Just a little update on this small group.
So far, Chris and Kim Pong have not replied, but Ian and John did. We shall not wait for them, for i believe they will check their e-mails soon. :P
It is time to kick start this E-mail, where E stands for encourage, edify, sharE and prE(a)y. haha...:-D
A psalm I read which I felt was rather cool:
The law of the Lord is perfect, reviving the soul.
The statutes of the Lord are trustworthy, making wise the simple.
The precepts of the Lord are right, giving joy to the heart.
The commands of the Lord are radiant, giving light to the eyes.
The fear of the Lord is pure, enduring forever.
The ordinances of the Lord are sure and altogether righteous.
They are more precious than gold, than much pure gold;
they are sweeter than honey, than honey from the comb.
By them is your servant warned; in keeping them there is great reward.
Psalms 19: 7-11
Don really get what it means, but it just sounds so beautiful :)
The Lord has really helped me in adapting for the past week, and I thank Him for that.
He is my peace and comfort.
Please pray for :
Continued discipline in doing QT
Forging good and healthy relationships with course mates, so as to help in evangelism and being a good testimony.
Wisdom and comittment in helping out in Sunday School. (I've just joined them)
Guys, i don ask for much. Just need all of us to CHECK & REPLY our mails at least once a week.
Let us get this going, for I do not believe the army or school should hinder us from edifying our peers in Christ.
May the peace of God be with us all,
j LOW
and my subsequent reply
On 9/15/06, Ian Ho <the_invisible_mirage@hotmail.com> wrote:
hey man
what a good bit of Word that is...
anyway lately... i realise that army life is changing me. i dunno why, i've lost sight of a lot of things i once held close. i'm becoming a bad person.a pretty bad person. maybe it's the system, and the people in this system,and then the people i'm with in this system, but nowadays, i don't care about a lot of things anymore. i can't see the need to be a good person, a holy and Christlike person, and it'sjust the little things like swearing and making stupid jokes, but after awhile i do a lot of mean and wrong things and stuff like that and i don't care if i do. it helps me fit in,it helps me get along, it helps make the bloody week go by faster. i know we always talk a lot about grand things like getting people to know Christ and being goodtestimonies,but it seems so much like nobody really needs God in their lives, and me being such a horrible testimony isn't going to help anybody see what a Christian life is. life nowadaysis so sian... and trying to be a nice person without all the usual nonsense seems soboring. i've become so short-sighted lately... it's like i'm looking only to the end of the day, the exercise, the week... and i'm blinded to the long term aim...of being a Christlike buddy to my mates past army life, of serving God with my life, of going to heaven with people i wanna help. i can't see it anymore, i'm losing hope of seeing Christ's plan here in the army. i know i should spend more time with God, and ... i wish it were easier. but i'm the onlyperson making it harder, and that's no excuse. it's not about the hours, and it's not about other people, it's about how much i want to do stuff like qt, and the rotten side of me always suggests that i don't need it. God's there when i go back to Him, because He shows Himself when i open my eyes, but i'm so stubborn and arrogant i think i can be an asshole and get away with it because of His mercy.there are so many things i know to be true and i used to hold on to, but now i neglect and ignore. like... trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding, in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will make your paths straight. But now i just don't care, and i just do whatever i think needs to be done that works, i've forgotten what it means to lean on God's strength. I just can't see God working in physical direct actions, that i forget He's there and i don't really put my trust in Him to see me through my trials and my days. I wish i could see, i want to see. i don't wanna grow cold and hard-hearted, and blind to His will and His purpose.
well that's it so thanks for listening. pray for me and i'll try my best to qt every day so yeah i will. urhm until next time. haha.
ian
who is honker in camp
(honker is a bad person)
and jlo's reply
Dear Ian,
thanks for the honest sharing bro. that's what i'm talking about man, it's what i want to see happening in this E- mail, among the 5 of us.
Bro, i understand what you're going through man.
I've started swearing as well and it definitely does not help in our testimony of Christ.
The stuff guys talk about and the vulgarities really gets into my head. The monotony( is that how it is spelt?) and the bored-ness really leaves us with nothing much to look forward too eh?
So that emptiness is filled with many stupid and undesirable things that are born in the army.
bro, dont worry about others, worry about yourself first!
I'm glad you've thought this through and..
Did you realise that your email contains the problems AND its solutions? haha...
Its definitely not easy to be a good testimony AND evangelise, so let US take one thing at a time.
Dude, hold on to what you believe, for that determines your words and actions. examine yourself continuously and continue to change to the likeness of Christ .
At this point of time, I am struggling to be a good testimony, all for one reason: so that i can share Jesus with others.
If it wasn't for this 1 reason, I will be smoking and swearing my life away !
Ian, you are NOT a honker. please change this mindset of yours.
We are children of God, an instrument of righteousness, the apple of His eye. and that includes YOU.
"Return to me, and I will return to you," says the Lord God Almighty.
-Malachi 2:7
Guys, let us keep one another in prayer, especially in our spiritual lives.
It is so easy to lose it to the world, to conform to the patterns of this world.
For those who are happy with their spiritual lives, let us not be complacent, and continue to be disciplined
in doing qt and spending time with our Lord God.
Come to Church if you all can, for it is by fellowship that we are able to keep one another in check, at the same time to edify and pray for one another.
Just a side question for the army guys:
do you get sexually deprived because of the army? haha
Keep pressing on in Christ and remember to PRAY!!!!!!!!!!
yours faithfully,
j LOW
and another from j.lo
Hey guys,
How's the week been?
Just want to encourage you all to start/continue to post updates and encouragements on this E-mail. (pls remember wad the E stands for)
Ian, how is it going? Do let us know your progress so WE CAN keep you in prayer.
Ian turns 19 TODAY. HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!
Especially for Kim Pong, the church is starting 40 days of community ( something like 40 days of purpose)
Want to encourage you to join us. I know it would be tough to be committed for those weeks, but something is better than nothing eh bro?
Make this an 'excuse' to come back down to church !
John, are exams coming up anytime? do let us know yr timetable if so.
I had a very tiring week, but let us continue to strive on for the Lord is our strength.=)
Have a great week guys.
God Bless.
j LOW
there's more where that came from, but that's quite enough to read. haha. i also revealed so much that even if i suddenly get protests to stop this it's probably too late. sorry! haha. right we'll have more in a while.
we actually have quite a lot of this kind of stuff, you know. feel free to pre-empt me in posting it here. until then,
take care, guys. weekend's coming!
honker
okay. it's been five days since i told you guys about the idea of having a blog, and sent out the email to the twenty seven (omgoodness twenty seven really!?) people who do or have once belonged to our cg. the email was sent as an invitation, although obviously i wish it were more forcefully presented so that the responses would be that much quicker. but i also thought it would be important to stress how much of an effort something like this would certainly demand, and i thought you guys deserved not to have anything tossed into your laps. and this was certainly supposed to be more than just a random blog of a group of people, so the buildup to this, i would think, would certainly serve to cause people to reconsider happily volunteering to join up in this enterprise without having given it much thought.
anyway despite that, we've had a decent showing, and at least people have stepped up to become authors of this blog. of the rest, there have been the odd email or two in a postive response, without the actual taking up of the offer to write, which is of course, acceptable either way, and besides, it's early days yet. i've tried to talk to some less represented members of our cg on msn, and will continue to do so in the hopes that they will at least keep an eye on this blog. i must admit i am slightly puzzled by the turnout in general, but i will certainly follow up on this, be sure of it. :) oh and thanks to kash, for our first two posts! haha. i am working on something else at the moment, something also for our cg, which i will reveal when complete. in any case, if inspiration should strike, please, vandalise our blog! better than empty like it is now.
and now, because i admittedly attest to a certain lack of blogging inspiration, i have decided to post some of the earlier threads that we ran through in our emails. whereas this should be the prerogative of their original authors and composers, i have nonetheless taken the liberty of copying them onto this blog, at least in the attempt to trace the foundations of our online fellowship system (OFS). lol.
first, that of j.lo. way back, way back then.
On 8/27/06, J. Low <jono11287@gmail.com> wrote:
To Ian, Kim Pong, Chris and John,
whose faith lies in my God, our Lord Jesus Christ, to whom all honour and praise is due:
My dear brothers in Christ, I come to you with the deepest desire to start a small support group among the 5 of us after much procastination on my part.
I pray that we will share, encourage, and be humbled in this support group. My friends, it is not only because of the army of which why this is starting, but because of the
age phase which we are going through. It doesnt matter whether its the army or the poly, our main goal is to PRAY, SHARE and ENCOURAGE.
Due to our highly busy and extensive life, I believe E-MAIL and SMS are the best mediums to fulfill our Goal.
1. PRAY
This is YOUR responsibility. Enough said.
2. SHARE
Brothers in Christ, in this new dawn and age, many are not sharing freely and from their heart. It is my desire that WE will open up ourselves so that we
can be accountable to one another.
What to share:
Dudes, Im a guy too. Dont hold back your sharing, for i think like you too.
Sex(porn, Geylang, etc.), BGR, Girls
Vulgarities
Pride
Christian Walk
Evangelism
Army/Studies
Church
Bondages
Just some ideas for sharing :)
3. ENCOURAGE
Share with us what you learnt in QT, in school, in army, in life.
Share a verse or a testimony.
You know what I mean.
Brothers, I need to have all of your co-operation and comittment on this so that it makes me disciplined to keep this going and also that WE will all be lifted in Christ.
All it takes minimum is to check AND reply your email every weekend. (if you are home that is). Additional would be sms-ing one another during the week.
Guys, WHAT SAY YOU?
Yours dearly in Christ,
J Low :-D
and the next,
Dear Warriors in Christ,
Just a little update on this small group.
So far, Chris and Kim Pong have not replied, but Ian and John did. We shall not wait for them, for i believe they will check their e-mails soon. :P
It is time to kick start this E-mail, where E stands for encourage, edify, sharE and prE(a)y. haha...:-D
A psalm I read which I felt was rather cool:
The law of the Lord is perfect, reviving the soul.
The statutes of the Lord are trustworthy, making wise the simple.
The precepts of the Lord are right, giving joy to the heart.
The commands of the Lord are radiant, giving light to the eyes.
The fear of the Lord is pure, enduring forever.
The ordinances of the Lord are sure and altogether righteous.
They are more precious than gold, than much pure gold;
they are sweeter than honey, than honey from the comb.
By them is your servant warned; in keeping them there is great reward.
Psalms 19: 7-11
Don really get what it means, but it just sounds so beautiful :)
The Lord has really helped me in adapting for the past week, and I thank Him for that.
He is my peace and comfort.
Please pray for :
Continued discipline in doing QT
Forging good and healthy relationships with course mates, so as to help in evangelism and being a good testimony.
Wisdom and comittment in helping out in Sunday School. (I've just joined them)
Guys, i don ask for much. Just need all of us to CHECK & REPLY our mails at least once a week.
Let us get this going, for I do not believe the army or school should hinder us from edifying our peers in Christ.
May the peace of God be with us all,
j LOW
and my subsequent reply
On 9/15/06, Ian Ho <the_invisible_mirage@hotmail.com> wrote:
hey man
what a good bit of Word that is...
anyway lately... i realise that army life is changing me. i dunno why, i've lost sight of a lot of things i once held close. i'm becoming a bad person.a pretty bad person. maybe it's the system, and the people in this system,and then the people i'm with in this system, but nowadays, i don't care about a lot of things anymore. i can't see the need to be a good person, a holy and Christlike person, and it'sjust the little things like swearing and making stupid jokes, but after awhile i do a lot of mean and wrong things and stuff like that and i don't care if i do. it helps me fit in,it helps me get along, it helps make the bloody week go by faster. i know we always talk a lot about grand things like getting people to know Christ and being goodtestimonies,but it seems so much like nobody really needs God in their lives, and me being such a horrible testimony isn't going to help anybody see what a Christian life is. life nowadaysis so sian... and trying to be a nice person without all the usual nonsense seems soboring. i've become so short-sighted lately... it's like i'm looking only to the end of the day, the exercise, the week... and i'm blinded to the long term aim...of being a Christlike buddy to my mates past army life, of serving God with my life, of going to heaven with people i wanna help. i can't see it anymore, i'm losing hope of seeing Christ's plan here in the army. i know i should spend more time with God, and ... i wish it were easier. but i'm the onlyperson making it harder, and that's no excuse. it's not about the hours, and it's not about other people, it's about how much i want to do stuff like qt, and the rotten side of me always suggests that i don't need it. God's there when i go back to Him, because He shows Himself when i open my eyes, but i'm so stubborn and arrogant i think i can be an asshole and get away with it because of His mercy.there are so many things i know to be true and i used to hold on to, but now i neglect and ignore. like... trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding, in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will make your paths straight. But now i just don't care, and i just do whatever i think needs to be done that works, i've forgotten what it means to lean on God's strength. I just can't see God working in physical direct actions, that i forget He's there and i don't really put my trust in Him to see me through my trials and my days. I wish i could see, i want to see. i don't wanna grow cold and hard-hearted, and blind to His will and His purpose.
well that's it so thanks for listening. pray for me and i'll try my best to qt every day so yeah i will. urhm until next time. haha.
ian
who is honker in camp
(honker is a bad person)
and jlo's reply
Dear Ian,
thanks for the honest sharing bro. that's what i'm talking about man, it's what i want to see happening in this E- mail, among the 5 of us.
Bro, i understand what you're going through man.
I've started swearing as well and it definitely does not help in our testimony of Christ.
The stuff guys talk about and the vulgarities really gets into my head. The monotony( is that how it is spelt?) and the bored-ness really leaves us with nothing much to look forward too eh?
So that emptiness is filled with many stupid and undesirable things that are born in the army.
bro, dont worry about others, worry about yourself first!
I'm glad you've thought this through and..
Did you realise that your email contains the problems AND its solutions? haha...
Its definitely not easy to be a good testimony AND evangelise, so let US take one thing at a time.
Dude, hold on to what you believe, for that determines your words and actions. examine yourself continuously and continue to change to the likeness of Christ .
At this point of time, I am struggling to be a good testimony, all for one reason: so that i can share Jesus with others.
If it wasn't for this 1 reason, I will be smoking and swearing my life away !
Ian, you are NOT a honker. please change this mindset of yours.
We are children of God, an instrument of righteousness, the apple of His eye. and that includes YOU.
"Return to me, and I will return to you," says the Lord God Almighty.
-Malachi 2:7
Guys, let us keep one another in prayer, especially in our spiritual lives.
It is so easy to lose it to the world, to conform to the patterns of this world.
For those who are happy with their spiritual lives, let us not be complacent, and continue to be disciplined
in doing qt and spending time with our Lord God.
Come to Church if you all can, for it is by fellowship that we are able to keep one another in check, at the same time to edify and pray for one another.
Just a side question for the army guys:
do you get sexually deprived because of the army? haha
Keep pressing on in Christ and remember to PRAY!!!!!!!!!!
yours faithfully,
j LOW
and another from j.lo
Hey guys,
How's the week been?
Just want to encourage you all to start/continue to post updates and encouragements on this E-mail. (pls remember wad the E stands for)
Ian, how is it going? Do let us know your progress so WE CAN keep you in prayer.
Ian turns 19 TODAY. HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!
Especially for Kim Pong, the church is starting 40 days of community ( something like 40 days of purpose)
Want to encourage you to join us. I know it would be tough to be committed for those weeks, but something is better than nothing eh bro?
Make this an 'excuse' to come back down to church !
John, are exams coming up anytime? do let us know yr timetable if so.
I had a very tiring week, but let us continue to strive on for the Lord is our strength.=)
Have a great week guys.
God Bless.
j LOW
there's more where that came from, but that's quite enough to read. haha. i also revealed so much that even if i suddenly get protests to stop this it's probably too late. sorry! haha. right we'll have more in a while.
we actually have quite a lot of this kind of stuff, you know. feel free to pre-empt me in posting it here. until then,
take care, guys. weekend's coming!
honker
Monday, January 14, 2008
So I'll do the honours and be the first to get the ball rolling. Privilege eh?
Yall should really check out the link in the shoutbox, Rob Bell's "rain" video, incidentally reminded me of Chris Martin 's(Coldplay) "Fix You", with all that walking.I really love the way it's made, because I've had some of the best conversations just walking and talking to people,like that. It feels as if Rob Bell was walking me to the bus stop telling me a casual story that really impacted his life...very noice that.
Since I've started journalism,I've had many such conversations with people that I meet:not talking about God per se, but talking about something deeper, the things that really concern them, the things on their heart and in their lives.Many of these conversations have blessed me, challenged my faith, and shown me the world through a different perspective.The more I talk to people, the more I realise the less I know: there are so many perspectives on an issue and each have their own justifications, it is almost impossible,I feel, to figure out truth based on intellect/cerebral matter alone.
Travel, be away, talk to someone unfamiliar/different without pre-judgements, and you'll know what I mean.
Rob Bell says in his video, that Jesus came for the sick and not for the well, and God says "cry out to me and I will listen".Im not trying to extol my own virtue, but I think there is an in-built sense of me liking to talk to melancholic, slightly troubled people to find out what's up with their lives,to just be a companion in their loneliness.Of course,effervescent and socially healthy people are equally attractive, but I believe life is much more than what looks like on the surface.
Recently, Ive dealt with a spate of friends confiding in me.I must say it really IS a privelige to be needed, to be trusted as such.I would listen over five hour conversations, talk over coffee, supper, drinks, MSN about breakups, the problem of "the ex", but mostly breakups.It feels like someone has let you in the exclusive abt their lives.
Nooma says in his video that God cannot not help you when you cry out (help in the sense of both the larger and the smaller plan) and I guess Im made part that way as well, it's hard for me to leave someone when I know they are in pain.I believe most problems stem from emptiness which only God's love can answer.
I think for the longest time, Ive invested a lot of emotions in friends, feeling for their problems, spending time being their outlet, trying to be an encouragement.It is quite a thankless job actually.
Finally, that day one of my guy friends came to tell me about his problems and I felt SO fucking frustrated,treated as an outlet and last but not least, TIRED. Very very tired of listening, even angry at myself for investing so much time and energy in these people knowing I won't get much in return.
That moment forced me to take a look :
1) I cant be noble or try to be. Despite the amount of time spent comforting a person,being good companionship, I can't save. I am not the Saviour, Jesus is. I cannot try to fill their distance from God with my friendship, what is emotional release in a friend compared to knowing God who brings Salvation?
2) I cannot solve their problems, only God can.I say it and I say it again, I ain't no Saviour.I am human, I tire, I cannot take another person's burdens upon my shoulders. Whereas God says "Come to me all you weary and burdened for I will give you rest" and it is only He that can give the soul rest.
3) Despite the superficiality of the phrase "seek God in your troubled times"(it's something we all KNOW we shld do), I think it's still the most meaningful advice. Sure I can give advice from my POV, but it is not the answer,only God holds the key, He knows your past present and future.
Anw, so much so for these reflections.Im real sleepy now, going to concuss on my bed.
Yall should really check out the link in the shoutbox, Rob Bell's "rain" video, incidentally reminded me of Chris Martin 's(Coldplay) "Fix You", with all that walking.I really love the way it's made, because I've had some of the best conversations just walking and talking to people,like that. It feels as if Rob Bell was walking me to the bus stop telling me a casual story that really impacted his life...very noice that.
Since I've started journalism,I've had many such conversations with people that I meet:not talking about God per se, but talking about something deeper, the things that really concern them, the things on their heart and in their lives.Many of these conversations have blessed me, challenged my faith, and shown me the world through a different perspective.The more I talk to people, the more I realise the less I know: there are so many perspectives on an issue and each have their own justifications, it is almost impossible,I feel, to figure out truth based on intellect/cerebral matter alone.
Travel, be away, talk to someone unfamiliar/different without pre-judgements, and you'll know what I mean.
Rob Bell says in his video, that Jesus came for the sick and not for the well, and God says "cry out to me and I will listen".Im not trying to extol my own virtue, but I think there is an in-built sense of me liking to talk to melancholic, slightly troubled people to find out what's up with their lives,to just be a companion in their loneliness.Of course,effervescent and socially healthy people are equally attractive, but I believe life is much more than what looks like on the surface.
Recently, Ive dealt with a spate of friends confiding in me.I must say it really IS a privelige to be needed, to be trusted as such.I would listen over five hour conversations, talk over coffee, supper, drinks, MSN about breakups, the problem of "the ex", but mostly breakups.It feels like someone has let you in the exclusive abt their lives.
Nooma says in his video that God cannot not help you when you cry out (help in the sense of both the larger and the smaller plan) and I guess Im made part that way as well, it's hard for me to leave someone when I know they are in pain.I believe most problems stem from emptiness which only God's love can answer.
I think for the longest time, Ive invested a lot of emotions in friends, feeling for their problems, spending time being their outlet, trying to be an encouragement.It is quite a thankless job actually.
Finally, that day one of my guy friends came to tell me about his problems and I felt SO fucking frustrated,treated as an outlet and last but not least, TIRED. Very very tired of listening, even angry at myself for investing so much time and energy in these people knowing I won't get much in return.
That moment forced me to take a look :
1) I cant be noble or try to be. Despite the amount of time spent comforting a person,being good companionship, I can't save. I am not the Saviour, Jesus is. I cannot try to fill their distance from God with my friendship, what is emotional release in a friend compared to knowing God who brings Salvation?
2) I cannot solve their problems, only God can.I say it and I say it again, I ain't no Saviour.I am human, I tire, I cannot take another person's burdens upon my shoulders. Whereas God says "Come to me all you weary and burdened for I will give you rest" and it is only He that can give the soul rest.
3) Despite the superficiality of the phrase "seek God in your troubled times"(it's something we all KNOW we shld do), I think it's still the most meaningful advice. Sure I can give advice from my POV, but it is not the answer,only God holds the key, He knows your past present and future.
Anw, so much so for these reflections.Im real sleepy now, going to concuss on my bed.
Sunday, January 13, 2008
top of the first, none out. here comes the pitch...
hi fellas. this will be a sort of re-statement of what this blog is about, and why we want to have it for this cell.
reasons why we see this as a good idea:
reasons why we see this as a good idea:
- one way or another, the time we spend together at cg is limited, and so we aren't able to really talk to one another.
- there's dicussions we have that we don't get to say what we want, because we don't want to disagree sharply with each other, and we don't want to interrupt the cg leader.
- it is a good testimony of what we are. we imagine it would really help people introduced to our cell to read our blog to know about us.
- we can say as much as we want whenever we want, in whatever detail and expression and tone.
- we can talk about things we are interested in that others might not be. we can talk about things that are totally not related to the topic in our weekly cg.
- we can stay in touch with people overseas, and they with us.
- we can pray 'out loud' for one another
fringe benefits:
- cgls can post things, announcements, etc.
reasons why it should work for us:
- as the de facto blog ic, i have much blogging experience to draw from, and am quite critically acclaimed (pardon me). and i promise above all else to not do very much of what i think, or what i want, as the blog ic. other than blog, of course. and i promise to seek the Spirit on this blog, every time i think about it.
- various groups of people have been sounded out on whether or not they'd be interested in actively writing, and the response has been positive all the way around. this blog can be a place for people who don't speak up much on things, both spiritual and otherwise, to gradually and willingly reveal their thoughts and themselves. we can choose to tune out when people speak up in cell, but we can also choose to really digest what they have to say, when it's not their faces talking to you.
- the people overseas will be dying, Dying, to blog.
- inspiration might strike at any time, during cell, after cell, the week in between cells. and there's nothing worse for inspiration then not being able to tell people about it, whether because it's not appropriate in cell, or because it's meaningless when it's not cell.
- we are all clever people, and use english well. there is no reason that we cannot have a proper blog.
- if we take this blog seriously, and blog meaningfully, there's a chance we're really gonna get a peek into each other's worlds.
- there is no regulation of how casual or how serious we need to be in this blog. well, duh, for all blogs. but here and now is the place where we can really get a feel for each other's personal voice, the things that egg us on, and float our boats. and more importantly, where or where not our hearts are.
- what better thing is there to do at work, and at lectures? haha.
As partners in this, we need to really think about whether or not we are willing to be individually devoted and passionate about this. if we do, or decide not to be, it doesn't mean that we do or do not love this cell as much as anyone, it only means that this isn't the avenue we want to express it in. and we as a people can totally, comprehensively and lovingly understand that. to continue a blog takes a lot of effort and constant 'blogger-mentality'. we shouldn't start things to watch them fail. it becomes ugly, and it sticks with us. and if this blog doesn't pick up momentum, and sustain it, it will fail, and it will become ugly, until we eventually decide to euthanise it.
okay. i've really given it a lot of thought, and i really humbly invite us all to do this together. of myself, i have devoted this enterprise to the glory of God in us, and to this cg.
so when you've decided to get your blogger accounts and want to begin posting, we'll all be here waiting for you.
God bless to the max.
honker
how beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news
hello, friends. and welcome to our cg blog.
and who are, 'we'? what are we, do we have a 'we'? do we really think so?
haha. and so, perhaps just like you, we are here to find out.
so, please, come in, take off your shoes. can i get you a glass of water? no? a small aperitif? fortune cookie? very well. please, make yourself at home.
and read. read on, our dear readers. hear our words, feel our hands, touch our faces, and love our dreams. tread softly as you may, ever so softly. and when you have known every last thing that you'd ever want about what we stand for, then come to us, and embrace us, and join us.
and who are, 'we'? what are we, do we have a 'we'? do we really think so?
haha. and so, perhaps just like you, we are here to find out.
so, please, come in, take off your shoes. can i get you a glass of water? no? a small aperitif? fortune cookie? very well. please, make yourself at home.
and read. read on, our dear readers. hear our words, feel our hands, touch our faces, and love our dreams. tread softly as you may, ever so softly. and when you have known every last thing that you'd ever want about what we stand for, then come to us, and embrace us, and join us.
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